bomb damage still appearing in replay

[handihoc]

I thought it was fixed, but it ain't. Or maybe it applies only to scenarios made before V1.08?

Anyway, playing Webwing's Ghost campaign, in two separate scenarios bomb craters caused during action phase show up at the beginning of the next replay (ie are visible before the bomb hits).

[ May 06, 2008, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: handihoc ]

[c3k]

Agree. In WeGo, v1.08, terrain deformation carries from end of action phase to beginning of replay phase.

Ken

[MarkEzra]

Please send a save file with short location discription...I will try to duplicate

[c3k]

MarkEzra,

SPOILER! TF Thunder screenshot follows...

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Here is a screenshot of the unit in question. The crater is caused by the IED in the vehicle.

Please refer to this savegame file:

Savegame with Crater Error

It is a Command Phase file. Just hit the red button to run as Action Phase. Afterwards, in the Replay Phase the crater will be visible. (The detonation occurs with 16 seconds remaining in the turn.)

If you need more information, please let me know.

(I have seen this crater error with all manner of ordnance. I have not bothered tracking it because I did not think that anyone thought it was fixed. As a known issue I did not want to contribute to a worthless deluge of error reports.)

Regards,

Ken

[MarkEzra]

Got it...Thanks..... verified and reported

[ May 06, 2008, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: MarkEzra ]

[handihoc]

Yes, c3k, you phrased it much more accurately than me, but I was drunk.

[Pandur]

whats with the other stuff wich does not reset in the replay!?

tracers around ATGMs,

BMP1 73mm main tracers,

SPG-9 tracer,

Mk19 tracer,

do not reset, means in the replay you basicly dont see them.

dont get me wrong, i dont mean "normal" tracers, but the "shiny" cone around the fired object wich helps you visualize its path.

its there in the turn itself but not in the replay of it.

[Dragon67]

I have seen the same thing and believe that I also noticed that if you click on unit during replay- it will not show a "killed" soldier who was fine prior to end of last turn.

I rarely use turn base anymore.

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by Dragon67:

I rarely use turn base anymore.

Sadly I think this is a big factor in why so many CMx1 players have abandoned CMx2. I have been forced to play RT a lot more than WEGO because of the bugs in the replays and it does spoil my game experience compared to CMx1. I hope BFC are listening and fix all the resetting issues as soon as possible, otherwise a lot of WEGO players will continue to give CMx2 a wide berth.

[Pandur]

well, i didnt let myself force to play RT just becouse the WEGO part was totaly unfinished at release and isnt "done" till today.

most senarios i cant play in RT as the games performance isnt compareable to other RT games.

since RT will never have replay too i guess my first RT game in CMSF will still have to wait until i dont know what happens...

[Battlefront.com]

We have fixed quite a few of these issues. A recap of why they exist:

The file size would be enormous if everything were stored by default, so Charles did not throw in the kitchen sink. Instead he chose what to put in. In a few instances he made a mistake and overlooked something. Since hey Are purely visual, are only related to replay, and are only noticeable if You're looking at the rights spot at the right time, These issues have not been our top priority, though many of them have already been fixed.

Personally, I can't understand why anybody would stop playing the game or gong to Real-Time just because of these issues. Seems... odd. There are graphical glitches in Just About any Game I've ever played, but that alone hasn't stopped me from playing. But then again gamers are odd people

The terrain deformation issue is something that will likely be around for a while. This is not an easy thing to Fix, so it's not a top priority due to it being a graphical glitch only. Never the less, it is on not being over.

Steve

[Pandur]

Since hey Are purely visual, are only related to replay, and are only noticeable if You're looking at the rights spot at the right time

in case of the "tracers" i noted above you dont even need to look at the right spot at the right time.

its pretty obviouse out of any distance and any angle that the tracers you saw while calculating the turn are gone now.

i also have to add that that no real "big thing" for me but if you take many little things and put em in a place it tends to grow to a big bunch after time.

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

The file size would be enormous if everything were stored by default, so Charles did not throw in the kitchen sink.

Understandable but I bet there is still some room for optimisation of the way the data is stored? Hopefully Charles will find ways to reduce the file size over time. In addition, may I add that this seems to be primarily a PBEM issue. Perhaps we could have an option for more realistic replays for single-player only, when file size wouldn't be a problem?

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Since hey Are purely visual, are only related to replay

Saying they don't matter because they are purely visual seems a bit nonsensical to me. By definition, the whole damn replay is purely visual. It's a bit like a chef saying he didn't add salt because it only affects the taste.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

and are only noticeable if You're looking at the rights spot at the right time, These issues have not been our top priority.

Another one of those double-speak moments. The whole point of a replay is so you can see things you missed in previous playbacks.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Personally, I can't understand why anybody would stop playing the game or gong to Real-Time just because of these issues.

CMx1 only had WEGO but it worked very well, perhaps even flawlessly. CMx2 has WEGO and RT but WEGO has graphical issues compared to RT. Many CM players see WEGO as CM's unique selling point. When we heard there would be a RT option in CMx2 we were told this would make WEGO better, not worse, because we'd see shells in mid-air at the end of the replay etc. Whilst this is true to some extent, the graphical problems do detract from the experience considerably.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

The terrain deformation issue is something that will likely be around for a while. This is not an easy thing to Fix, so it's not a top priority due to it being a graphical glitch only.

This is a great pity because it's probably the one thing most people don't like about WEGO in CM:SF. Yes, it's purely graphical, but as I've already said, that's the whole point of a replay. A replay that doesn't look like the original isn't a replay!

Why is this so hard to fix? It sounds like the entire 3D mesh and LOS map is constructed anew whenever a crater forms and this is why it would be too big a change to include in the replay. If this is the case then I appreciate the problems involved but I would urge BFC to make it a higher priority in the hopes that one day a solution will be found.

[ May 06, 2008, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Cpl Steiner ]

[c3k]

Steve,

Thanks for the response.

Regards,

Ken

[Battlefront.com]

CplSteiner,

Understandable but I bet there is still some room for optimisation of the way the data is stored? Hopefully Charles will find ways to reduce the file size over time.

I really doubt it. Maybe a little trimmed here and there, but I don't think enough to be noticeable. The data is already compressed too.

In addition, may I add that this seems to be primarily a PBEM issue. Perhaps we could have an option for more realistic replays for single-player only, when file size wouldn't be a problem?

Perhaps, but that isn't the problem here. It's storage in RAM and how to swap things back and forth. Remember, data stored in a PBEM file is basically the stuff that is stored in RAM.

Saying they don't matter because they are purely visual seems a bit nonsensical to me. By definition, the whole damn replay is purely visual. It's a bit like a chef saying he didn't add salt because it only affects the taste.

No, I'm saying it's like throwing a steak out because it doesn't have salt on it And no where did I say it doesn't matter, I just said that it isn't a top priority for us to fix. Pathfinding issues, for example, are visual AND they effect gameplay. Life's all about choices and game development is no different.

Another one of those double-speak moments. The whole point of a replay is so you can see things you missed in previous playbacks.

No doublespeak. The crater not resetting doesn't impact the game itself, therefore it is a lower priority than things that do.

CMx1 only had WEGO but it worked very well, perhaps even flawlessly. CMx2 has WEGO and RT but WEGO has graphical issues compared to RT. Many CM players see WEGO as CM's unique selling point. When we heard there would be a RT option in CMx2 we were told this would make WEGO better, not worse, because we'd see shells in mid-air at the end of the replay etc.

This issue has NOTHING to do with RealTime. It has to do with the more detailed environment requiring a lot more resources. It just so happens that since RealTime constantly purges old info that this issue doesn't affect it.

Whilst this is true to some extent, the graphical problems do detract from the experience considerably.

I understand and if I could snap my fingers today it would be fixed. But it doesn't work like that.

This is a great pity because it's probably the one thing most people don't like about WEGO in CM:SF. Yes, it's purely graphical, but as I've already said, that's the whole point of a replay. A replay that doesn't look like the original isn't a replay!

Sure it is... it's just not a perfect one.

Why is this so hard to fix? It sounds like the entire 3D mesh and LOS map is constructed anew whenever a crater forms and this is why it would be too big a change to include in the replay. If this is the case then I appreciate the problems involved but I would urge BFC to make it a higher priority in the hopes that one day a solution will be found.

It is the case and as I've said it will be fixed. But I've also said it's not our top priority. Everything can't be a top priority, so it's pick and choose. We always have, and always will, pick the things that have significant affect on the game functionality rather than the visuals thereof.

Alternatively, I could lie out my ass and say we'll have a fix soon

Steve

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by Cpl Steiner:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dragon67:

I rarely use turn base anymore.

Sadly I think this is a big factor in why so many CMx1 players have abandoned CMx2...

[...]

...otherwise a lot of WEGO players will continue to give CMx2 a wide berth. </font>