Marine Corps: Get Some!

[GasMask]

Hey all, I'm new to the sight and actually new to the Combat Mission game franchize. I always heard it was a damn good war sim but never could find it. Well, I just bought Afrika Corps and it rocks.

Anyways, I just got out of the Corps in July and spent most of 2004 in Iraq with 2D Bn 2D Marines in the Suni Triangle (sp). Ever since I've been back I have noticed a lot of TV shows and games trying to make money on the Iraq war and usually they just make some cheesy crap, kind of like Wind Talkers was cheesy for WWII, or Heart Brake Ridge was cheesy for that era. Anyways, I'm very glad to see that you guys are developing a game based on the middle east and on Modern Warfare. By seeing the dedication you put into your other games, I am sure that this will be the most comprehensive and accurate middle east combat sim. I'm sure that I won't be embarrassed to play it like some other games.

I'm also very happy to read that you will have Marines in the game, because let's just face it, the Army is in Iraq to stabalize it, while the Corps is in Iraq to hunt down terrorists, and who wouldn't want to play a game where you're using some hard core Marines to take out a few terrorists.

I never new how many military guys played this thing till I was reading on these boards. WOW. Anyways, I'm looking for someone to play online with or via e-mail, so if you guys are up for it, send me an e-mail.

Semper Fidelis

And keep up the great work. Out.

[Salkin]

Welcome, always nice to see another contributor to these great games!

A word on enduring these forums :

Keep your sense of humour switched on at all times, watch out for the "Cesspool/Peng" thread and "Goodales cheery waffle" (that's where all the extremists hang out) and always stay on Madmatts sunny side.

That's the short version .

//Salkin

Lurking swede

[Colin]

Originally posted by Salkin:

[..and always stay on Madmatts sunny side.

That's the short version .

//Salkin

Lurking swede

Rule 3 is never picture Madmatt's area where the sun is lacking.

[Thomm]

Peng is not a name, Peng is a concept!

[Peter Cairns]

What sunny side?

Peter...

[civdiv]

Originally posted by GasMask:

Hey all, I'm new to the sight and actually new to the Combat Mission game franchize. I always heard it was a damn good war sim but never could find it. Well, I just bought Afrika Corps and it rocks.

Anyways, I just got out of the Corps in July and spent most of 2004 in Iraq with 2D Bn 2D Marines in the Suni Triangle (sp). Ever since I've been back I have noticed a lot of TV shows and games trying to make money on the Iraq war and usually they just make some cheesy crap, kind of like Wind Talkers was cheesy for WWII, or Heart Brake Ridge was cheesy for that era. Anyways, I'm very glad to see that you guys are developing a game based on the middle east and on Modern Warfare. By seeing the dedication you put into your other games, I am sure that this will be the most comprehensive and accurate middle east combat sim. I'm sure that I won't be embarrassed to play it like some other games.

I'm also very happy to read that you will have Marines in the game, because let's just face it, the Army is in Iraq to stabalize it, while the Corps is in Iraq to hunt down terrorists, and who wouldn't want to play a game where you're using some hard core Marines to take out a few terrorists.

I never new how many military guys played this thing till I was reading on these boards. WOW. Anyways, I'm looking for someone to play online with or via e-mail, so if you guys are up for it, send me an e-mail.

Semper Fidelis

And keep up the great work. Out.

Welcome aboard. And it is indeed a small world. I was with the 24th MEU when 2/2 was the BLT, during the 2002-2003 deployment. I was a HET guy so I spent a lot of time with all of the infantry companies in the MEU.

[GasMask]

Oh yeah? I heard that deployment sucked big time. I joined 2/2 three months before we left for Iraq, which was March 2004 and all I heard for those 3 months was, "all man, I just spent 9 months there an now I gotta go back after only 9 months home." I felt bad for everybody there lol.

By the way, you HET are guys are pretty cool, I always wandered if you guys interigated the Iraqis like Ace Ventura interigated that guy about the bat on part 2. "Vwhere... is... zee bat!?"

[juan_gigante]

Hate to break your heart GasMask, but Marines won't be in the initial release. You'll have to wait for an expansion pack for that.

[civdiv]

Originally posted by GasMask:

Oh yeah? I heard that deployment sucked big time. I joined 2/2 three months before we left for Iraq, which was March 2004 and all I heard for those 3 months was, "all man, I just spent 9 months there an now I gotta go back after only 9 months home." I felt bad for everybody there lol.

By the way, you HET are guys are pretty cool, I always wandered if you guys interigated the Iraqis like Ace Ventura interigated that guy about the bat on part 2. "Vwhere... is... zee bat!?"

No we just ask them the same question three times. On the third they have to tell us the truth.

Yeah, it really did suck. Like 3 days of liberty in over 9 months. Saw some cool places though.

[Popfreak]

Welcome aboard!

Aco 1/5

Semper Fi,

Pop

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Salkin:

A word on enduring these forums :

Keep your sense of humour switched on at all times, watch out for the "Cesspool/Peng" thread and "Goodales cheery waffle" (that's where all the extremists hang out)

//Salkin

Lurking swede

It's good that you understand that the 'Cheery Waffle' thread is where all the extremists hang out.

Salkin, my downy bird, I have my eye on you...

[Salkin]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Salkin:

A word on enduring these forums :

Keep your sense of humour switched on at all times, watch out for the "Cesspool/Peng" thread and "Goodales cheery waffle" (that's where all the extremists hang out)

//Salkin

Lurking swede

It's good that you understand that the 'Cheery Waffle' thread is where all the extremists hang out.

Salkin, my downy bird, I have my eye on you... </font>

[Nidan1]

Just what we need...another one

[civdiv]

Totally off topic, but one of my favorite alltime quotes just came to mind. I saw a James Schlessinger speach on CSpan. He said;

'This nation needs more strategic airlift ability, so the Army can more adequetely support the Marine Corps'

[Fusilier9]

"I'm also very happy to read that you will have Marines in the game, because let's just face it, the Army is in Iraq to stabalize it, while the Corps is in Iraq to hunt down terrorists..."

The Marine Corps is full of first rate warriors but the ability of many of you to exaggerate is also remarkable. I think there is also a bit of an inferiority complex among some marines. Just because the marines weren't assigned the main offensive effort in either Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Desert Storm doesn't mean you should feel slighted.

"and who wouldn't want to play a game where you're using some hard core Marines to take out a few terrorists."

I find the Army TO&E more interesting due to the greater variety of forces (light infantry, Stryker, heavy).

[GasMask]

Wow, I'm a little taken back by your lack of tact and inmaturity. (sp) How can you just come right out from left field calling Marines exaggeraters and saying we have inferiority complexes? Why turn a perfectly good discussion into crap?

How would you know we exaggerate if you're not a Marine? Why must you instantly feel that we are lying? Maybe you're the one with the inferiority complex and are jelious. The only reason soldiers don't join the Marine Corps is because they are scared of what it's like, because if you want to be the best fighting man in the world, that's just what you do, join the Marine Corps, and if you want to be a SEAL, you join the Navy, that's that. There is a reason the army is called "regular." Now I don't know if you are in the military, but usually that's the kind of crap I hear from Army dogs, and I don't want to hear any more attacks like that. Can't I feel my Corps is the best with out a lot of complaining? If you don't believe you're the best, you die.

Any how, the Marine Corps played important roles in both those wars. If you pull up a map of the invasion of Iraq, there is on MEU invading from the east... a whole MEU, and to say that that is nothing shows how much you really know. Now it's late, and I'm tired, so I don't want to ramble on but it's been my experience that much of the army does things pretty laxed and messed up durring combat. Such as having about a few miles of feul trucks in a convoy protected by a small handful of gun trucks and then you guys wannder why you get ambushed so bad. Sure, the army has some good weaponry, but your tactics suck, and no one can bring it on harder then the Corps with our close air support, arty, tanks, amphibious vehicles, snipers, and most importantly the Marine. Cause when it all comes down to it, if that Marine isn't thinking like a Marine, and hard charging, none of the above matters.

Anyways, please, if you don't agree with what Marines say, keep to your self, or say it to our faces, don't ambush us on a fricken website, that's cowardly, and if you read my post that you replied to, I made no attacks on the army or any other branch, I believe they are all needed in there own way, and like I said, the army is mainly an occupying force (nothing wrong with that) and the Marines are the shock troops. The only reason Marines are in Iraq now is because the Army couldn't hold Iraq by them selves, just like in Vietnam. NUF SAID.

[Fusilier9]

“Wow, I'm a little taken back by your lack of tact and inmaturity. (sp) How can you just come right out from left field calling Marines exaggeraters and saying we have inferiority complexes? Why turn a perfectly good discussion into crap?”

Slow down Flicka! You may call it immaturity but I was just engaging in some fun inter-service rivalry banter. I saw your original post and just jumped in. I didn’t take offense to your definition of the Army’s role and you shouldn’t either.

“How would you know we exaggerate if you're not a Marine? Why must you instantly feel that we are lying?”

No accusations from me regarding your veracity. I feel you earnestly believe what you are saying.

“Maybe you're the one with the inferiority complex and are jelious.”

Yep, maybe I am jealous.

“The only reason soldiers don't join the Marine Corps is because they are scared of what it's like, because if you want to be the best fighting man in the world, that's just what you do, join the Marine Corps, and if you want to be a SEAL, you join the Navy, that's that.”

Well, I would say that many service members feel their unit is the best no matter what service they are in. All military personnel should take pride in their selfless sacrifice to our nation.

“There is a reason the army is called "regular." Now I don't know if you are in the military, but usually that's the kind of crap I hear from Army dogs, and I don't want to hear any more attacks like that.”

Well, I certainly didn’t feel like a “dog” when I was serving in the Army and I’m sure my son, who is currently serving with the 1st Armored Division in Iraq, doesn’t feel like a “dog.” I’d rank his unit as good as any other.

“Can't I feel my Corps is the best with out a lot of complaining? If you don't believe you're the best, you die.”

I believe you should feel the Marine Corps is the best. If you read my post you would see I complimented the USMC but just took some exception to the secondary role you, undeservingly, gave to the Army.

“Any how, the Marine Corps played important roles in both those wars. If you pull up a map of the invasion of Iraq, there is on MEU invading from the east... a whole MEU, and to say that that is nothing shows how much you really know.”

Agreed, the role of the USMC was a key component of victory in both wars. However, let’s talk some reality here. In OIF, the 3rd Infantry Division was the main offensive effort. The MEU undertook a difficult but supporting attack to the east.

Likewise, the marines attacked north into Kuwait through a difficult defensive belt during Operation Desert Storm. However, the main effort was with the armor and mechanized divisions of the VII Corps.

“Now it's late, and I'm tired, so I don't want to ramble on but it's been my experience that much of the army does things pretty laxed and messed up durring combat. Such as having about a few miles of feul trucks in a convoy protected by a small handful of gun trucks and then you guys wannder why you get ambushed so bad. Sure, the army has some good weaponry, but your tactics suck, and no one can bring it on harder then the Corps with our close air support, arty, tanks, amphibious vehicles, snipers, and most importantly the Marine. Cause when it all comes down to it, if that Marine isn't thinking like a Marine, and hard charging, none of the above matters.”

Since you’re so tired, I won’t elaborate further as it will tend to provoke you.

“Anyways, please, if you don't agree with what Marines say, keep to your self, or say it to our faces, don't ambush us on a fricken website, that's cowardly, and if you read my post that you replied to, I made no attacks on the army or any other branch, I believe they are all needed in there own way, and like I said, the army is mainly an occupying force (nothing wrong with that) and the Marines are the shock troops. The only reason Marines are in Iraq now is because the Army couldn't hold Iraq by them selves, just like in Vietnam. NUF SAID.”

Sorry to cause your blood pressure to skyrocket. I sincerely didn’t mean to offer offense. You offered an incorrect assessment of the Army’s role and I was having some fun with you and your fellow marines. I don’t mean to disparage the USMC, as it is a fine fighting force. However, the Army is also a fine fighting force. Can’t we celebrate the contribution of all our forces?

[Bigduke6]

If you don't believe you're the best, you die.

I could name some combat units famous for wearing spiffy black uniforms that not only thought they were the best, but arguably were the best.

They died in great quantities because their leaders hoped well-trained soldiers with excellent tactics could stand up indefinately against overwhelming firepower.

When WW2 was over, most of the survivors got turned over to the Soviets. Being "ueber" didn't do them much good in the Gulag. Meanwhile, the "regulars" got on with their lives and built the German economic miracle.

You want a tough question, ask yourself, which group made a greater contribution to the German society? The regular soldiers that made it back to civilian life, or the elite ones that died or would up digging Soviet subway systems for a living?

You want to win a battle, Marines (and other expensive combat forces) are great. You want to win a war, you better use a strategy more sophisticated than: Super troops = Automatic victory.

*ducks*

[Fusilier9]

“I could name some combat units famous for wearing spiffy black uniforms that not only thought they were the best, but arguably were the best.”

I won’t even comment, as there is no comparison.

“You want to win a battle, Marines (and other expensive combat forces) are great. You want to win a war, you better use a strategy more sophisticated than: Super troops = Automatic victory.”

The reality of war extends far beyond the banter of which service is better or which unit is the best. Such generalities hold little truth.

Look at Gas Mask’s comments, “the army is mainly an occupying force (nothing wrong with that) and the Marines are the shock troops.”

He is obviously very proud of the USMC and rightfully should be. However, his comments demonstrate a superficial appreciation for the realities of modern war. The USMC and Army have differing organizations, tactics, capabilities, and specialties. One service compliments the other in many ways but differences still exist.

Such discussions and rivalry are becoming archaic anyway in this new era of joint operations. The Army is transforming into an expeditionary force much like the current manner in which the USMC is trained and deployed. Brigade-sized units of both services will continue to rotate through deployments overseas. USMC and Army units will both have duties as “shock” forces and “occupation” forces as they have in the past. There is much each service could learn from the other and cooperation will be a necessity in the future.

Look at the Battle of Fallujah as an example. Two Army mechanized battalions served under the USMC-led assault on the city. The Army units were complimented by the infantry heavy-based formations of the USMC fighting in urban terrain while the USMC benefited from the firepower and tactical mobility of the Army’s tanks and Bradleys. The ability of commanders of both services to work together brought about victory in Fallujah.

This example has been repeated in the recent past and will continue to be the trend in the future.

[Seanachai]

Actually, what I've noticed most about news out of Iraq is that the Marines have been foremost in their pursuit of 'winning hearts and minds', while the Army has been far more heavy-handed.

After all, we've won the war in Iraq, eh? According to the CiC, we won it a couple of years ago. Now we're trying to win the Peace.

When your enemy no longer wears a uniform, or fields organized forces, then it's not fire missions, assaults and search-and-destroy, it's about who can gain and maintain the peace without creating new enemies.

In such circumstances. the better the training and the less cock-posturing, the more likely victory will be. After all, we went there to free the Iraqis, didn't we? And now they're free. The mission should be to keep them free, not 'kicking the fecking snot out of them'.

So, since 'Mission Accomplished', the real question amongst the Services is: Who's doing a better job of ensuring peace in Iraq?

I've read some very good articles about how the Marines are fighting the Insurgents, while respecting the people we went over there to free.

I only knew a few Marines before joining this Forum, and they were pretty good people, in general. I've seen a lot more of them since I started posting here, and I was rather more impressed than I thought I would be. But frankly, GasMask, your comments are belligerent, arrogant, and, well...kinda stupid. I don't think that's your intent, but I also don't think you're representing the Corps well.

Maybe try getting to know people here before you posture and throw ****e at them. There's a lot of Marines here, many of them vets from Viet Nam on. Pride is one thing. Arrogant belligerence is another.

And not everyone here has been in the service, either. Every one of us posts as an individual, but those who've served their country also posts as a representative of that service. When you post as a Marine, you're also posting to a lot of people who haven't served.

Marines are still holding ground in Iraq, and they're doing so as the reps of America. What I've read and heard from friends is, they're doing a good job at that. And when you post here as a Marine, you're posting as a rep of your Service. Take the chip off, and do a good job here, as well.

[WineCape]

Ignore Seanachai at your own peril - he delivers rabid prose & is usually senile, but he can make sense if you have your bi-foculs on

Welcome aboard!

Sincerely,

Charl Theron

[GasMask]

Hey, if I seem a little arrogant then oh well. That's not my intent. I love my Corps. Like I said above however is that all branches are needed in their own way.

I feel that some of the Armies tactics arn't great, but that's my opinion. It's not like I hate the army or anything; because my dad served as a Tanker for 24 years and was in Vietnam a while. Even he however, tells me that the Army just isn't like it used to be. He tells me it's gone soft. I don't know if it's true, but from what I've experienced, maybe it has, I don't know; but that's not the point. The point is I was just talking about how cool the Corps would be in this game and then someone came in here saying that we exaggerate and have an inferiority complex, but apparently no one calls his comments arrogent or upsetting, but mine are? Hmmm, well, excuse me.

And about those soldiers wearing the black uniforms who died and didn't get to return to Germany. I take it you are talking about the German troops?

Well, you do realize that the only reason the regular army made it back alive was because they surrendered right? And the others died in great numbers because they were fighting to the last man, and for their homeland. So, you're saying that it's better to surrender then to fight? You're comparrison isn't very good. I mean, you're kind of saying that if Washington DC was being attacked such as Berlin was, that the Army would have given up and the Marines would have defended it to the last man, because that's what happend in World War II.

But I get what you are saying, kind of. If you have great training and no fire power, you loose. But what about viet nam, we had great fire power, and training and the Vietnese had not much. See, I do realize that victory is a combination of things, politics, tactics, firepower, and that individual Soldier/Marine who's on the ground. But what I was getting at is the mind set of a Marine is to not except defeat and to be thinking that he is a killer and the agressor not the other way around. If you don't feel confident in your abilities then you don't perform well.

All the jets, tanks, and ships can make a great force, but you still gotta have boots on the ground, and they damn well better be confident.

[Yardstick]

Originally posted by GasMask:

Wow, I'm a little taken back by your lack of tact and inmaturity. (sp) How can you just come right out from left field calling Marines exaggeraters and saying we have inferiority complexes? Why turn a perfectly good discussion into crap?

How would you know we exaggerate if you're not a Marine? Why must you instantly feel that we are lying? Maybe you're the one with the inferiority complex and are jelious. The only reason soldiers don't join the Marine Corps is because they are scared of what it's like, because if you want to be the best fighting man in the world, that's just what you do, join the Marine Corps, and if you want to be a SEAL, you join the Navy, that's that. There is a reason the army is called "regular." Now I don't know if you are in the military, but usually that's the kind of crap I hear from Army dogs, and I don't want to hear any more attacks like that. Can't I feel my Corps is the best with out a lot of complaining? If you don't believe you're the best, you die.

Any how, the Marine Corps played important roles in both those wars. If you pull up a map of the invasion of Iraq, there is on MEU invading from the east... a whole MEU, and to say that that is nothing shows how much you really know. Now it's late, and I'm tired, so I don't want to ramble on but it's been my experience that much of the army does things pretty laxed and messed up durring combat. Such as having about a few miles of feul trucks in a convoy protected by a small handful of gun trucks and then you guys wannder why you get ambushed so bad. Sure, the army has some good weaponry, but your tactics suck, and no one can bring it on harder then the Corps with our close air support, arty, tanks, amphibious vehicles, snipers, and most importantly the Marine. Cause when it all comes down to it, if that Marine isn't thinking like a Marine, and hard charging, none of the above matters.

Anyways, please, if you don't agree with what Marines say, keep to your self, or say it to our faces, don't ambush us on a fricken website, that's cowardly, and if you read my post that you replied to, I made no attacks on the army or any other branch, I believe they are all needed in there own way, and like I said, the army is mainly an occupying force (nothing wrong with that) and the Marines are the shock troops. The only reason Marines are in Iraq now is because the Army couldn't hold Iraq by them selves, just like in Vietnam. NUF SAID.

So, let me get this right. The only person allowed to voice their opinion is a Marine? If someone disagrees with a Marine they

are not allowed to say so? Wow.

Dude, you are a f#%king tool. You come in here and sling mud at the Army and then you get your panties all knotted up because someone confronts you on it. If you are a Marine then you need to start acting like one. Cut the boastful bull**** and grow up.

[Fusilier9]

Gas Mask:

You should feel rightly proud of your service with the USMC. As I’ve already said, marines are first-rate warriors. You have nothing to defend because the Corps is not under attack by me.

I am merely responding to your gross exaggeration of the current and past role of the Army. These are your words, “the army is mainly an occupying force (nothing wrong with that) and the Marines are the shock troops.” Not sure the Army units that assaulted into As Samawah, An Najaf, around Karbala, Baghdad Airport or the thunder run into the city (along with many, many more situations in OIF) would feel they are a mere occupying force.

“Sure, the army has some good weaponry, but your tactics suck,”

How do you know that? Give some examples?

“I feel that some of the Armies tactics arn't great, but that's my opinion. It's not like I hate the army or anything; because my dad served as a Tanker for 24 years and was in Vietnam a while. Even he however, tells me that the Army just isn't like it used to be. He tells me it's gone soft.”

The Army wasn’t soft when I was serving and my son tells me his training, unit cohesion, and morale are tops at the moment. Some units are better than others whether they are marines or soldiers.

“The point is I was just talking about how cool the Corps would be in this game and then someone came in here saying that we exaggerate and have an inferiority complex, but apparently no one calls his comments arrogent or upsetting,”

Clearly, my comments were upsetting. However, your assertions are exaggerations and not based upon history. If you would like to calmly discuss the issue, I feel confident in my ability to demonstrate the inaccuracy of your statements.

[GasMask]

I didn't say that only Marines can state thier opinion. You can say that the Marine Corps doesn't fight well, or you don't like the Corps or whatever, but to attack Marines by saying we are exagerating and we have inferiority complexes is not simply disagreeing with tactics, or the way we do things, it's actually attacking Marines as people on a personal level. That is wrong. State you opinion all you want, but I would expect that you would keep it from being personal. Hell, when I said the army is an occupying force, maybe I was wrong, but I never said that Army guys are "THIS." I was talking about how they do things militarily, not personally.

I think some of you people are skipping over the parts when I say all the branches are needed and I'm not trying to downplay that.

You know, instead of coming in hear calling me names, you should try to talk with some respect and with some maturity. You can't call me a Tool over my opinions and then tell me to grow up. You should take your own advice. As you can see, I didn't call any names. If you don't like what I say, then fine, to each his own, but don't come in here acting like that. Call me a Tool to my face, then I'll actually respect that, but name calling behind a computer is cowardice.

I would like to end this conversation, actually, it's becoming an argument, and that's not what I intended to happen. So do you think we can chill out and respect each other as military men? And if you arn't in the military, I don't think you have any bussiness telling any of us what's right or wrong. Again. All branches are needed, please forgive my statement about the "occupying force," surely I do realize the army has the capacity for being an aggressive force.

Fusilier9, thank you for being respectful, but I still feel your comments in the beginning were to personal, but hey, water under the bridge. No hard feelings.