Grog gunnery question for M1A1 Tank Commander

[M1A1TC]

While I was a driver, I threw track off only once, while making a power-slide in a sand bank

Originally posted by gibsonm:

Also are you guys really allowed to have both live and training ammunition natures on the vehicles at the same time ??!!!

Using training or blank rounds whilst having a red AFV flag up is a chargeable offence here in Aust.

In USA the red flag on a range means you are locked and loaded, ready to fire. Green means chamber clear, weapon clear. Yellow and Red mean a weapon malfunction. All three flags are a chemical alert.

The only time I had battle ammo (With depleted Uranium sabot) was in South Korea. All other times tanks carry training ammo, with Aluminum sabot.

Here is an example of a fire command

Commander: Gunner, Sabot, Tank!!

Gunner: Identified!!

Loader: UP!!!!

Commander: Fire!!

Gunner:ON THE WAY!!

Commander: Target. Cease Fire!

[ January 03, 2006, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: M1A1TankCommander ]

[SgtMuhammed]

You young'uns and your non-throwing tracks. My 113 used to throw track 4 times before I even started the engine.

Standing knee deep in half frozen mud trying to hammer track together is one of the special joys of armored life.

[oren_m]

Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq):

Standing knee deep in half frozen mud trying to hammer track together is one of the special joys of armored life.

Sure!

That and your nuts being smashed by 0.5 ammo crate.

[gibsonm]

Ah my mistake.

So the round you have in the photo is what we would call PRAC (practice) it is full charge but the round itself is inert. So for example PRAC HESH has all the ballistic properties of real HESH but the round itself doesn’t go off.

PRAC APDSFS is similar to service APDSFS except its total range is less (it still has the same characteristics but its range template is smaller). these are used to maintain crew skills while reducing wear and tear on the barrel, recoil system, etc.

We also have training or drill rounds which have no propellent charge and an inert round and these are used to practice crew drills. These are never mixed with practice or service ammunition.

Our vehicle flags are similar too:

GREEN: Weapons are unloaded, safe to approach the vehicle (from the rear).

RED: Weapons unsafe, not allowed to approach the vehicle.

BLUE: Hydraulics activated (Stab in use).

YELLOW: Prolonged stoppage - not a good thing.

Normally on a mobile practice you fly the red and blue flags together.

Apart from being in the vehicle itself, the best times I’ve had have been as a safety officer for junior commander’s and riding along on the outside of the turret during a mobile practice (checking their drills, safety, etc. whilst hanging on and ducking trees) keeps you awake.

[M1A1TC]

No, incorrect

The round is not inert, its a round used to shoot gunneries with. It has aluminum penetrator. The real war rounds have black color instead of blue, have depleted uranium penetrator, and are fired only during war.

When that round hits the target, there is a lot of radioactive dust released, so thats why it is only for combat. Only time I saw those when I was in Korea.

[oren_m]

Is that true that you can kill a tank behind a dirt ramp with the depleted uranium round?

We also dont have them in the tank, we'll get them only in war time.

I have never saw one of these rounds!

In the IDF we dont have training ammo, instead, we use out dated ammo, you know, they have exprition date, when this date is over the ammo "magicly" turns to training ammo.

It's a good way to save money

[M1A1TC]

I dont have any personal experience, but Ive read that a round went through a dirt berm, killed a tank behind it, went through it, and killed another tank. This happen during Gulf War

[gibsonm]

No I appreciate than the round you were holding was not inert in that it has propellent and a downgraded penetrator.

Our “practice“ ammunition is the same except for those natures that have an explosive projectile (like HESH or HEAT) which in the prac rounds are inert.

[M1A1TC]

Our training HEAT rounds are filled with concrete. Have you ever tried putting a roll of toilet paper with grease on it on the round's tip, and then fire it? Makes a fireball

[gibsonm]

Well as a former Sqn Commander (Coy Commander) and Regt 2IC (Bn XO) I could never officially endorse such a non doctrinal practice.

But my time as a Tp Ldr (Pl Commander) and before then as a digger appreciates it.

[gunnersman]

Originally posted by M1A1TankCommander:

I dont have any personal experience, but Ive read that a round went through a dirt berm, killed a tank behind it, went through it, and killed another tank. This happen during Gulf War

I have read about this too. Tom Clancy mentioned a story in his book "Armored Cav: A Guided tour of an Armoured Cavalry Regiment".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0425158365/ref=sib_rdr_dp/104-5345919-0409541?%5Fencoding=UTF8&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&no=283155&st=books&n=283155

According to the story a T72 engaged a M1 during the first Gulf War. The T72 hit the M1 and did only superficial damage and took cover behind a berm. The M1 saw the heat signature and put a sabot round through the berm hitting the T72.

[hellfish]

Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq):

You young'uns and your non-throwing tracks. My 113 used to throw track 4 times before I even started the engine.

Standing knee deep in half frozen mud trying to hammer track together is one of the special joys of armored life.

Seriously. I had to break track on a 113 and an M60A3 in Germany (1-4 INF) in knee deep mud. Sucked big donkey ones.

[Splinty]

I can't count the hours I've spent breaking track on Brads and 113's. At least twice per NTC/Hohenfels trip and once per Grafenwoher/Ft. Stewart gunnery, trip. That's not even counting local field problems and motor pool maintainance time.