Building Dimensions

[mav1]

Will you be able to adjust the length and width of a building and the walls inside the building?

In cmx1 the building was on one square 20 x 20m, will buildings be less restricted in cmx2?

Would you be able to creat a small building like a garage or shed and also create a large building like a hospital or airport?

Will stairs and lifts be in the buildings?

Will there be walls in the buildings to create different rooms and be able to block los?

Will the number of different bmp of buildings be increased, so that diffent types of building textures can be created by modders?

[Wicky]

Mav - pretty easy using that 'search' function which still seems to elude you:

Topic: On the topic of building models - posted December 30, 2005 02:57 PM

Look for Steve's reply re. 'buildings' + 'modular'

Topic: Terrain And Buildings - posted March 02, 2006 03:01 PM

You asked the virtually the same question 6 months back - Dogface kindly copy and pasted Winecapes "Synopsis" thread just for your benefit - oddly enough still stickied just above and reproduced below for your edification:

Building structures

I don't want to get into too many details about buildings just yet, but I do want to hit the high points (in no particular order). One thing to keep in mind is that the scenario designer has a lot of flexibility when it comes to what a specific building will be like. So anything in the following list that hints at choices means a choice for the scenario designer.

1. Many stories (levels) now possible. I don't know what the limit will be, but we'll probably cap it at 6. Anything above that is problematic and quite useless from a game standpoint. These will be directly simulated, not abstracted.

2. Roof tops can be used if there is access to them.

3. Basements are an option for a building now. If I get my way there will be two types... one that has windows and one that does not. Up to Charles.

4. Stairs are directly simulated. However, stairs are somewhat abstracted still. There is somewhat of a choice about where to locate them.

5. Interior rooms are abstractly simulated. There is a choice about how this is simulated.

6. Buildings are deformable. Yes, this means specific, individual walls can be damaged. Not quite sure how far we'll be able to take structural failures in the first game. Buildings in general are something we expect to improve from title to title (especially because of the hardware issues).

7. Windows and doors are directly simulated. Walls can have either doors, windows, doors and windows, or nothing at all. This affects entry/exit possibilities as well as fighting positions.

8. Mouseholing is now possible.

9. Building variety, in terms of shape and size, is pretty much up to the scenario designer. Want buildings all mashed together with doors and windows on the same sides? Done. Want buildings that are long and short next to ones that are tall and skinny? No problem.

10. Buildings can now be placed on two different axis... 90deg and 45deg. We had wanted to make it four different axis (90, 22.5, 45, and 67.5) but Charles nearly had a stroke when we talked about this. His last words before passing out were "dude... you're insane! Do you know how much code and computer power that would take?!?". Then there was silence over the phone and later I could hear his wife giving Charles' jar an emergency boost from one WineCape's best bottles of vino. With his ability to think restored I promised to never mention it again (well, at least until the second game)

11. Surrounding terrain can now be pressed right up against a building, or extremely near to it (depending on circumstances). This means you can have small alleyways, streets right in front, trees right next to, etc.

12. With the 1m x 1m terrain mesh underlying the terrain, there should be no major problems with putting buildings on slopes. Not quite sure if it is a foolproof thing, but hopefully it is.

Building texture variety -> yes, we are planning on a lot more variety of textures. Mind you there is a VRAM consideration, but otherwise there is a lot more flexibility than CMx1. More stuff might happen but I don't want to say until coding is done.

Building shape variety -> we do want there to be the ability to have more specific buildings for different scenarios. However, keep in mind that with the narrower focus there is less need. There won't be a single CMx2 game that simulates structures from the plains of central Russia, the villages of Hungary, and the urban areas of Germany. Instead the game would focus on one particular region and therefore not require the variety previous CMx1 games needed. In fact, this is one of the reasons we changed to narrower settings rather than broad.

Building entry/exit -> designer can decide which side the door is on, or if it is there at all. Same with windows. Can also determine other details I don't want to get into right now. Just imagine the CMx1 system, nuke it, then imagine what you want. What you want is probably a lot closer to what CMx2 is capable of.

Interior parts of buildings

Interior stuff, such as furnishings, debris, doors, walls, etc. are handled abstractly. Again, more settings for the scenario designer to play with. However, sometimes internal walls and doors are simulated directly. Depends on how scenario designers want do it.

You can put two building right up against each other. Set the common walls to have doors and bingo... a way to get from one building to the other without going outside or blowing a hole in the wall. Put a 2 story building adjacent to a 3 story building, give the 2 story a flat roof and the 3 story a door on the common side on the 3rd floor. Now your guys can walk out onto the roof of the 2 story building.

I could go on and on about the possibilities now, but I think you guys get the drift... urban warfare is going to be a whole new experience in CMx2. Personally I feel that CMx1 did a better job with buildings than most, but CMx2 will likely be better than any other game out there. And I am including FPS games as well.

The only downside, besides the more involved scenario making, is that there will be a bit of a generic feel to the buildings from a graphical standpoint. Far less generic than CMx1 for sure, but not as rich as something like BF2. But then you have to consider that other game's maps are hand built, limited in size and scope, and often don't allow units to enter them... so like everything in life, there are tradeoffs.

Generic vs. Abstract - windows and doors are generic, but they are not abstract. This means there is a window at such and such a height with such and such a size positioned in this or that spot. That is direct and not abstract. The generic issue comes in that all windows will be that size and relatively positioned whenever windows are present. You won't get narrow windows on one building and big plate glass windows on another.

At least not in terms of the size and position, the graphics are a different story as they can be customized for the building wall texture underneath. This set in stone, applicable to all, dimensional modeling is what is used for LOS, LOF, and movement rules. There might be other abstractions associated with windows/doors, but they are based on top of the underlying system just described.

….one of the advantages of going with narrower subject matter is we don't get into the problems of "we need a house that works as well for central Europe as it does for Western Russia and Germany too" problem. Now we can simply make one set of models and textures that work with a specific area without worrying about others. In that way buildings will look a lot less generic in CMx2 compared to CMx1.

However, when I said there will be a more generic feel to the buildings I meant vs. games like BF2 or any number of other eye candy games that are out there. We can't compete with the visuals that come from a limited number of hand made buildings made by companies whose art budget is probably more than we made off of all the CMx1 games combined. These games are going towards $20,000,000 a title now... and most of that is art.

Originally posted by mav1:

Will you be able to adjust the length and width of a building and the walls inside the building?

In cmx1 the building was on one square 20 x 20m, will buildings be less restricted in cmx2?

Would you be able to creat a small building like a garage or shed and also create a large building like a hospital or airport?

Will stairs and lifts be in the buildings?

Will there be walls in the buildings to create different rooms and be able to block los?

Will the number of different bmp of buildings be increased, so that diffent types of building textures can be created by modders?

[ September 12, 2006, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: Wicky ]

[MikeyD]

Wow, I had somehow missed that old bone. I'm paricularly intrigued by #9 up there. Forget about actually playing the game, I'm buying CMSF to play architect!

[Dogface]

Way to use the search function mav.

[rudel.dietrich]

Now that is what I have been looking for

I wonder how much houses will simulate houses in the region.

Will courtyards be possible?

Will all rooftops have small wall around the edges?

Does every floor have to be the same size?

Lets say I want two main floors then a small floor on the roof, is that possible?

Will buildings have different building materials.

Wood

Mud

Concrete

Reinforced concrete

Cinder block

Thin metal

Metal and concrete

etc

???

Too bad we are limited to two building axis

And finally, how will soldiers react to all this new stuff?

In CMx1 is was pretty pointless to have a tiny alleyway since soldiers would either use the terrain next to the alleyway or warp into the building.

Will soldiers now have to use entryways and doorways?

Have to find windows and doors to fire out of?

Will they have to mount small walls and fences?

And custom buildings.

Will it be sort of like SimCity. Can we build custom buildings, save them and then upload them and share them as mods?

That would be too cool for words if its possible...

I am loving all the new building options.

I imagine the rate of new scenarios will be pretty low now since it will take forever to custom construct all this new stuff!

[Dogface]

Rudel

one answer for

And finally, how will soldiers react to all this new stuff?

In CMx1 is was pretty pointless to have a tiny alleyway since soldiers would either use the terrain next to the alleyway or warp into the building.

Will soldiers now have to use entryways and doorways?

Have to find windows and doors to fire out of?

Will they have to mount small walls and fences?

7. Windows and doors are directly simulated. Walls can have either doors, windows, doors and windows, or nothing at all. This affects entry/exit possibilities as well as fighting positions.

Dunno about the others Look through the links that have been provided.

[mav1]

And custom buildings.

Will it be sort of like SimCity. Can we build custom buildings, save them and then upload them and share them as mods?

That would be too cool for words if its possible...

Thats what I wish for. It would be fantastic for modders to creat 100's of different structures. If only BfC would give the code for creating building's and terrain features. So that modders could import their creations in the game.

[Sixxkiller]

I am pretty sure buildings will be moddable.

[Other Means]

You could make a scenario with only a building in it, if BFC make an editor and it's able to do cut'n'paste.

Being able to make interior baracades would be a cool option.

[mav1]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

I am pretty sure buildings will be moddable.

I wonder if they will be more bmp's for buildings and terrain in cmx2 to mod than in cmx1. Bfc could create a lot of bmp numbers that are blank and rely on modders to create there own designs to fill in the blank bmp's.

Its the same idea for creating winter mods by having seperate bmp's specialy for winter mods for future cmx2 game releases. This would mean modders wouldn't have to switch summer and winter bmp's around all the time when playing in winter or summer.

[Wicky]

Originally posted by mav1:

Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

CM has a numbering system that allows for winter bmps to automatically show up in the appropriate climate.

As a winter modder I don't have to switch my mods around depending on climate. But if I really wanted to extend the variety of mods in CM there have been mod managers for many years for both the Mac and PC.

As there won't be 'winter' in CMSF how will your expanded bmp system activate or are you advocating CMSF+ is designed with a built in mod manager?

The ease of modding has already been explained in WineCape's "Synopsis" thread. (see modding)

[ September 16, 2006, 04:16 AM: Message edited by: Wicky ]

[mav1]

CM has a numbering system that allows for winter bmps to automatically show up in the appropriate climate.

Well I didn't know that, I never read in the manual that you could create winter mods seperatly in the game with different numbered bmps.

By the way Wicky I like your Is-2 winter mod I have downloaded but there seems to a green edge on the side front, on the picture of the IS-2 of what it would look like, its white.

[Wicky]

Originally posted by mav1:

CM has a numbering system that allows for winter bmps to automatically show up in the appropriate climate.

Well I didn't know that, I never read in the manual that you could create winter mods seperatly in the game with different numbered bmps.

By the way Wicky I like your Is-2 winter mod I have downloaded but there seems to a green edge on the side front, on the picture of the IS-2 of what it would look like, its white.

Cheers Mav - post a screenshot of the problem area and I'll take a look.

http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/modvehicle.htm

Some nationalities have different texture sets for uniforms, according to the date of the scenario. The only other texture possible would be winter textures, invoked only when ground snow is present and only if winter mods are installed in the BMP folder. (CM:BB shipped without winter textures, so the default is no winter mods).

[ September 19, 2006, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: Wicky ]