winspmbt fun, and why this could help battlefront

[Efraim]

Dunnow if this makes any sense, or if anyone on this board will understand it, but allow me to say it nevertheless.

I have recently found myself to play more and more winspmbt (windows steel panthers main battle tank, you can download it here spcamo).

Now I don't want to start a thread on the limits (and advantages) of this old game, especialy if compared to CMBB (that in my opinion is the best game battlefront ever produced), but the nice feeling when playing israel against danemark, or east germany against tanzania, in the fifties or in the sixties... a bless!

I wonder if anyone here shares this approach

So what I am trying to say (and please excuse me if I don't manage it) is that the LATITUDE that this game provides could (could) be a good card to play when preparing "shock force big jim". Don't limit it to siria (or whatever) but open all countries/ all timeframes/ all scenarios, to the moders community, so that we can have holland against mongolia.

Ooops, I forgot: that's exactly what you are NOT going to do? You'r limiting this to one country, one country invader, one armored vehicle, one year?

Ok, just my 2 eurocents, but its kinda funny that I still enjoy not only CMBB (that I love) but also winspmbt (EXACTLY because I can play whatever I want

[hellfish]

The difference is that WinSPMBT is not a 3D game. Anyone who has ever attempted to model anything could tell you it's much easier to make, essentially, a 2D icon for a game than it is to make a functional 3D model that can stand up to groggish scrutiny.

It's like the difference between playing a tank warfare boardgame vs. a miniatures game - it's easy to scrawl on a small chunk of cardboard or paper, but it gets really expensive to build the same army with little lead tanks.

You'd have to have a heck of a lot of good modellers and even more time to create WinSPMBT in a 3D game. Plus, as I understand it, a lot of their stats are educated guesswork.

Still... I do like the whole fight anyone anywhere ability of that game.

[MikeyD]

I think BFC was considering a small concession in this regard, in that they were were looking at a little blue-on-blue action in QBs. I mean one Syrian faction against another with all their old-and-new Soviet equipment. Lets hope that happens.

I somehow doubt, though, that they're willing to let one side go Bradleys and the other Strykers for a little red-on-red QB mayhem. :eek:

[Sergei]

It's not only the 3D models - it's also the sound effects - Steel Panthers has no voice acting at all, let alone for each nation. And CM unit and OOB stats are more accurate.

Originally posted by MikeyD:

I somehow doubt, though, that they're willing to let one side go Bradleys and the other Strykers for a little red-on-red QB mayhem. :eek:

That - US vs. US - was precisely what was used as the definition of blue on blue by BFC themselves.

[MikeyD]

Ooops! Of course, blue-on-blue. I accidentally swapped color coding

I guess pink-on-pink is entirely out of the question. Don't ask, don't tell.

[Moon]

Actually if you ask me, the biggest limitation of SP (in all of its incarnations) is the I-Go-U-Go system which allows you to do a host of unrealistic things which are simply impossible in the We-Go environment of CM. For me, this was one of the biggest improvements that CM brought to the table a few years ago. Not 3D models or sounds.

Incidentally, of all the SP games, the modern version they made highlights this to the extreme. The modern battlefield is so lethal (compared to WW2 armored combat for example), that - coupled with this unrealistic turn system - it quickly creates an entirely wrong picture. I still am willing to bet that SPMBT was one of the main reasons why many WW2 fans have the kind of "modern war is boring" attitude I have seen often in the past.

I bet that the CM engine will set a bunch of things straight here...

This is also precisely the reason why I simply cannot get myself anymore to play SP, even though I still have (and intend to keep) SPMBT installed.

Martin

[juan_gigante]

I remember the old Warhammer tabletop minatures game. All the miniatures were really, really expensive, and my friends and I couldn't afford them on our $5 a week allowances. So what ended up happening was that we'd only buy the fancy leader models, and for all the rest, we'd just take a scrap of paper, write "Space Marine" on it, and that was that.

With SPMBT, I was initially stunned. "Wow! All these countries! Over this huge time period!" But then I played, and I don't really think it's that fun. The funnest part was setting up really weird QBs, and picking forces. I don't play 90% of the SPMBT games that I pick forces for.

[hellfish]

Actually, I'm the same way, Juan. I generate all these campaigns, get kinda excited about them (what other game lets you play the SADF vs. Angola!?) and then get bored to tears - usually within a couple turns of starting.

Partly because of what Moon pointed out, the I-go-U-go, and partly because the battles are sooooooooooo lame. There's only like five choices - meeting engagement, probe, assault, defense and prepared defense. I get bored playing the same games over and over again even though the force compositions might be totally different.

[hellfish]

d'oh

[junk2drive]

Compared to boardgames and IGOUGO turn based games WSPMBT does a pretty good job. It is just a game, not a simulator. Wild Bill has done some good scenarios for Korea and Vietnam that I can't seem to duplicate with the current CMs.

Gives me something to do while waiting for PBEM turns.

[junk2drive]

How about Steve or someone on the inside of BFC creating a scenario for WSPMBT with the units and timeframe of CMSF?

[M1A1TC]

WSPMBT is not very realistic. For example, when I fire main gun of my M1A1 tank on anything within 1000 meters, there is no way it could miss. Yet, the tanks in the game miss all the time

I tried playing it many times, but the turns are so slow, guns are inaccurate, I still dont know how to load infantry on a APC, so I am ready to give up.

I love playing scenarios with UAVs, Stryker MGS, and set in near future to get ready for CMSF

Hey, Junk2Drive, excellent idea

[Ryan Crierie]

Originally posted by Moon:

Actually if you ask me, the biggest limitation of SP (in all of its incarnations) is the I-Go-U-Go system which allows you to do a host of unrealistic things which are simply impossible in the We-Go environment of CM.

Well, I tend to think of Steel Panthers style games as sort of Advanced Squad Leader brought to your PC; and they're good for beer and pretzels wargaming; they're complex enough to be more than just "Tiger has a Armor rating of 10, Shermans 5"; yet not inordinately complex to prevent non-grogs from playing the game.

Also, you can edit the SP Games heavily; which is I think their biggest grace; Ever wondered what the US T30 and T34 heavy tanks (155mm and 105mm High velocity guns) could have done in WWII? now you can!