Nemesis Lead Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 To all the guys who have gotten back from Iraq....How are things going over there? My personal opinion is that we will not truly win until we win the hearts and minds of the average Iraqi. When Iraqis immediately report the presence of insurgents and generally do not aid them, we will have won. My take is that it depends on what part of Iraq you are in. Around Fallujah we are probably hated and in Kurdish areas we are loved. But what about the rest of the country? Where is the overall "center of gravity?" How are our "hearts and minds" efforts going? What does the average Iraqi think of the Americans? What do the Americans think of the Iraqis? Ah--this related to CMSF in that I wonder how civilians should be modelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Civilians won't be modelled and I think your topic is fishing for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Lead Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 This is a legitmate question that is debated in the press every single day. I want to hear what the guys who were over there think. There is no "fishing for trouble" here. Too bad civilians won't be modelled in CMSF. It would have been cool for both the US and Syrians to mistake civilians for the enemy and then lose points if they accidently hit them. The level of intelligence and Fog of War could also be modified by civilian support or lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 It's not related to CMSF, anyway. Learn to post your general topics in the general forum, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Lead Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Sergei, Don't tell me what I have to learn and not learn. You post those damn Cheery Waffle Threads that have nothing to do with reality, much less CM. You have no room to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Gee, this n00bian princess gets heated easily. I didn't even bother to mock him for not doing a frickin' forum search, instead of asking a question that has been presented and answered hundreds of times before. Maybe I should... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan_gigante Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 And to be fair, the Wafflers don't post so often anymore. Hell, their thread spends half its time on the second page, unlike the glorious Cesspool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogface Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 RE: sillyvillans Using the fancy SEARCH button at the top of the page, (picture for you so you dont have to scroll.) I found 3 links that had BF.c responding to this question. And that was only on the first page of three. halfway down page halfway down again As to the rest. Way to Troll there underbridge dweller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapuis Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Originally posted by Dogface: RE: sillyvillans Using the fancy SEARCH button at the top of the page, (picture for you so you dont have to scroll.) I found 3 links that had BF.c responding to this question. And that was only on the first page of three. halfway down page halfway down again As to the rest. Way to Troll there underbridge dweller. Dogface, looks like you have a smudge on your screen. Can you clean your monitor and print that again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Originally posted by David Chapuis: Dogface, looks like you have a smudge on your screen. Can you clean your monitor and print that again? I shudder to think what was smeared across the screen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogface Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Why vaseline of course. I smeared it around there so the word search was the one that stood out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 When I saw this thread I dropped in expecting some interesting analysis from people who have been there and know, and instead all I see is stupid backbiting and needless insults. Nemesis Lead, thanks for posting and sorry there are so many prima donnas on this forum who want to stamp down on free speach. Isn't freedom what the war is supposed to be about anyway. Sergei, until some decent game content starts to emerge from the CM:SF project for us to discuss, this IS a freaking general forum IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Originally posted by Cpl Steiner: this IS a freaking general forum IMO. Last I checked, it was the BFC's opinion that mattered on what this forum is. You can defend political trolls over at Gyrene's place just as well as here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Never been to Iraq and the only Iraqi's I know left under Saddam, but in general, I don't think the US or anyone else will ever be accepted in Iraq. The best we can hope for is that with a year or so, the Government will be confident or strong enough and have a strong enough army to let us get out. Interestingly, from the point of view of it's own popularity and survival, it may be in the interests of the government to be seen to be pushing us out. That might make it look strong, but if it is Shia dominated and looks like it might be broadly pro Iranian that won't go down well in Washington. Equally if it is strong and Shia, the sunni's won't be happy, and post US/UK involvement it might decisde to queel the Sunni triangle the Saddam way, making the US look like it has installed a brutal regeme. Again if a strong government emerges in the centre, it will go down like a lead ballon with the Kurds, who have still in no way given up their desire for their own state. At present that has been muted because the current guarentor of their security, the US, doesn't want it, but if the US was to leave, all that could change. I don't think any of this is political, and it doesn't matter if you supported the war or not. For me the whole idea of things getting better is missing the point, as at best we will get an "Egypt", a corrupt, brutal, pro western,semi democracy, and at worse Somalia mark 2, with a mini iran, a new Saddam type junta, or a new lebanon in the middle. In short if you think it will be "better" when we win over the hearts and minds, either forget it, or teach kindergarden kids to fire guns, because when they are old enough ,guess where they will be going..... Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I don't think any of this is political, and it doesn't matter if you supported the war or not. For me the whole idea of things getting better is missing the point, as at best we will get an "Egypt", a corrupt, brutal, pro western,semi democracy, and at worse Somalia mark 2, with a mini iran, a new Saddam type junta, or a new lebanon in the middle. I have been there, and things ARE getting better, and that is the whole point. The majority of Iraqis don't want us there, that's true, but not in the "kill the infidels, jihadi" kind of way. They don't want us there because we remind them of the fact that they couldn't get rid of Saddam on their own. The real insurgency is a small group that get it's help from a small number of former Ba'athists, Syria and possibly Iran. Alot of what is considered "insurgent activity" especially kidnappings and murders are more likely the acts of the Iraqi version of the "mob". That's not to say the insurgency isn't a very active and deadly bunch, they are. Having said all that, I think the majority of the population just wants to get on with their lives in peace. They don't hate us, don't want us dead, and are glad we kicked Saddam and his murders out of power, but they DO want us to go home. As to how the current government turns out, the Iraqi people will get what they vote for, which as far as they're concerned was the whole point of kicking Saddam out in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 There was a hell of a sandstorm last week and the 3rd ACR is returning to Colorado. Here is a a letter from the Mayor of Tall 'Afar, Iraq to the men and women of the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment and their families: In the Name of God the Compassionate and Merciful To the Courageous Men and Women of the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment, who have changed the city of Tall’ Afar from a ghost town, in which terrorists spread death and destruction, to a secure city flourishing with life. To the lion-hearts who liberated our city from the grasp of terrorists who were beheading men, women and children in the streets for many months. To those who spread smiles on the faces of our children, and gave us restored hope, through their personal sacrifice and brave fighting, and gave new life to the city after hopelessness darkened our days, and stole our confidence in our ability to reestablish our city. Our city was the main base of operations for Abu Mousab Al Zarqawi. The city was completely held hostage in the hands of his henchmen. Our schools, governmental services, businesses and offices were closed. Our streets were silent, and no one dared to walk them. Our people were barricaded in their homes out of fear; death awaited them around every corner. Terrorists occupied and controlled the only hospital in the city. Their savagery reached such a level that they stuffed the corpses of children with explosives and tossed them into the streets in order to kill grieving parents attempting to retrieve the bodies of their young. This was the situation of our city until God prepared and delivered unto them the courageous soldiers of the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment, who liberated this city, ridding it of Zarqawi’s followers after harsh fighting, killing many terrorists, and forcing the remaining butchers to flee the city like rats to the surrounding areas, where the bravery of other 3d ACR soldiers in Sinjar, Rabiah, Zumar and Avgani finally destroyed them. I have met many soldiers of the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment; they are not only courageous men and women, but avenging angels sent by The God Himself to fight the evil of terrorism. The leaders of this Regiment; COL McMaster, COL Armstrong, LTC Hickey, LTC Gibson, and LTC Reilly embody courage, strength, vision and wisdom. Officers and soldiers alike bristle with the confidence and character of knights in a bygone era. The mission they have accomplished, by means of a unique military operation, stands among the finest military feats to date in Operation Iraqi Freedom, and truly deserves to be studied in military science. This military operation was clean, with little collateral damage, despite the ferocity of the enemy. With the skill and precision of surgeons they dealt with the terrorist cancers in the city without causing unnecessary damage. God bless this brave Regiment; God bless the families who dedicated these brave men and women. From the bottom of our hearts we thank the families. They have given us something we will never forget. To the families of those who have given their holy blood for our land, we all bow to you in reverence and to the souls of your loved ones. Their sacrifice was not in vain. They are not dead, but alive, and their souls hovering around us every second of every minute. They will never be forgotten for giving their precious lives. They have sacrificed that which is most valuable. We see them in the smile of every child, and in every flower growing in this land. Let America, their families, and the world be proud of their sacrifice for humanity and life. Finally, no matter how much I write or speak about this brave Regiment, I haven’t the words to describe the courage of its officers and soldiers. I pray to God to grant happiness and health to these legendary heroes and their brave families. NAJIM ABDULLAH ABID AL-JIBOURI Mayor of Tall 'Afar, Ninewa, Iraq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Since this thread has nothing to do with CMSF (which isn't about Iraq), it's better suited for the General Forum. Unfortunately, it's too political for the General Forum, too, so it's better suited for the padlock Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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