Shock Force suggestions thread

[flyinj]

I've seen some good suggestions in the first impressions thread. Thought I'd start a thread to keep them all in one place.

Mine so far:

Have a "camera modifier" key that puts the mouse into left-hold and right-hold camera modes. For instance, holding down CTRL (or whatever) acts just like holding down the left mouse button. ALT could act as right mouse button. Give the option to make these toggles (tap once to get in, tap again to get out) or hold modifiers (hold to retain mode).

The reason I say this is that constantly holding down a mouse button can get very tiresome. Also, the slight delay when the game waits for the mouse to enter "camera" mode eventually grates on the nerves.

Also, it would be REALLY nice to have smoother WASD camera control. Implementing Total Wars' system would be fantastic, where holding down shift makes the camera move even faster.

EDIT: To bring this even further, the best possible scenario is to give an FPS "fly" cam. Where you would have a toggle key to put mouse into "mouselook" mode (turns the viewpoint left/right/up/down) whereas WASD "pans" the camera with a shift modifier to make it pan faster (as it behaves right now, but without all the weird speed up and slow downs that current plagues it). This would give fantastic and precise control of the camera.

Finally, a way to quickly mount/dismount large groups of troops. Throwing them all into Strykers at the beginning of a scenario takes a very long time.

[ July 27, 2007, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: flyinj ]

[Panzerfest]

I'd really like to see a 'rewind' function for real time play even if its only 10 seconds or so it would really help keep track of whats going on.

[Cornfleek]

tooltips explaining all the tiny symbols in the UI. Been playing Civ4 a lot lately, and once you get used to a tooltipped UI, you don't want anything else.

[metalbrew]

Tooltips would be great.

Watching the video twice is confusing. For turn based players, a single playback with VCR controls really makes a lot more sense (ala CMx1). I know... this isn't CMx1, but the double playback has extremely low usability for me.

The WASD camera controls seem broken, using them results in very choppy movement.

Conversely, the mouse camera controls are way too twitchy. I attempted for 5 minutes to get a directly overhead view of a Stryker from view level 2 and finally gave up because the controls were way too twitchy.

The on screen compass is counter intuitive. The red needle (north) rotates with the camera instead of the bezel moving. I realize the purpose of this perspective is to give the player a true reading of their direction, but the compass analogy isn't behaving like a real compass so it's confusing. If it was really a compass, clockwise rotation would cause the needle to rotate counter clockwise.

The movement/combat/special tabs have me bewildered. I assumed prior to getting the game, the purpose was to have a quick-tab interface to the orders interface. I thought 'mi' would result in move-quick and 'cu' would result in combat-target, etc...

Unit sizes, is there no analog to the old shift-c of CMx1? I realize this older feature throws the unit scale way off, but it helps see how the battle is unfolding. I miss that.

LOS tool? I'm confused during move planning without this tool. If there's an analog, please someone tell me and offer some LOS planning strategies.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by metalbrew:

Watching the video twice is confusing. For turn based players, a single playback with VCR controls really makes a lot more sense (ala CMx1). I know... this isn't CMx1, but the double playback has extremely low usability for me.

You do know that you don't have to watch the replay, right? After the minute has been processed and the replay starts, just press the big red button and you get to the next plotting phase.

[B00M$LANG]

Unless I missed something in the documentation, I would like to be able to "acquire" weapons, ammo, and other equipment from dead or injured soldiers.

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by Sergei:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by metalbrew:

Watching the video twice is confusing. For turn based players, a single playback with VCR controls really makes a lot more sense (ala CMx1). I know... this isn't CMx1, but the double playback has extremely low usability for me.

You do know that you don't have to watch the replay, right? After the minute has been processed and the replay starts, just press the big red button and you get to the next plotting phase. </font>

[Swift]

I second the "FPS fly style" camera mode and the single playback. I also would like to have the CM1 option to show the waypoints for all units (and their targets).

[MrSpkr]

Hrm. From the other thread:

Things I wish were in it: (a) ability to speed up, rewind or slow down turns as they commence.

( The ability to see a given unit's kills in a scenario (one of my favorite things about CMx1).

© Better AI on quick battles. I did a QB, blue on blue, I was supposed to defend against an attack. Computer never moved his forces, and I was unable to determine what my objectives were (nothing indicated on the map). If this is the quality of QBs, I am a little frustrated, though I will probably learn to live with it.

(d) Smoother transition between the actual map and the background.

(e) The ability to show all paths, or all covered arcs, or all paths and covered arcs, particularly in turn based play.

(f) The ability to resize units for easier visibility.

(g) the ability to zoom in and behind a selected unit instantly from any angle (right now, I often double click on a unit, then hit tab, and the camera moves to a position 40 meters or so above the selected unit, looking towards the horizon -- and the selected unit is completely out of sight!)

(h) The ability to turn off roofs and make buildings transparent or opaque (particularly critical if you are trying to keep track of a large number of troops in an urban environment).

(i) A keyboard interface which does not use the same keys over and over (yes, I know I can reprogram, but that is a pain). It is annoying to hit "U" and expect a move arrow, but get a targeting line instead.

Hmm. I will probably think of more as I play through, but these are same basic interface issues that make this game more confusing, and hence slightly annoying, than its predecessors.

Steve

[Sergei]

Originally posted by metalbrew:

I'm aware that I can quick-out of the video the second time. It doesn't really change my opinion of it's usefulness though.

But what is your suggestion? Keep in mind that the first time it plays out the orders in real time (unlike CMx1 where the turn was first processed and then replayed). The second time it replays that. Are you suggesting that there shouldn't be a replay starting automatically, or even that there simply shouldn't be a replay? Or are you suggesting that when the minute is played out in real time, that should be hidden from the player? Or maybe something else?

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Sergei:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by metalbrew:

I'm aware that I can quick-out of the video the second time. It doesn't really change my opinion of it's usefulness though.

But what is your suggestion? Keep in mind that the first time it plays out the orders in real time (unlike CMx1 where the turn was first processed and then replayed). The second time it replays that. Are you suggesting that there shouldn't be a replay starting automatically, or even that there simply shouldn't be a replay? Or are you suggesting that when the minute is played out in real time, that should be hidden from the player? Or maybe something else? </font>

[flyinj]

I think the best case scenario would be a time acceleration option (which would be useful in realtime mode as well).

As for the rewind, one solution could be this: When watching a turn resolve, you can pause and rewind at any time. If you pause or rewind, the computer continues to calculate the realtime turn in the background. This would allow you to rewind and fast forward up to the point where the turn is actually resolving. It would behave like a Tivo.

This would be fairly processor intensive, and I don't know if the engine would even have the hooks to support it.

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by Sergei:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by metalbrew:

I'm aware that I can quick-out of the video the second time. It doesn't really change my opinion of it's usefulness though.

But what is your suggestion?</font>

[Sergei]

You see, it's not CMx1. That's been Moon's favourite phrase for the last year or so, so I'm sorry if you've heard it before. The point being, the game executes in real time regardless of whether you choose RT or WeGo; hence the CMx1 type "wait fifteen minutes and then skip the replay" WeGo mode just isn't possible.

I guess only Charles would know if acceleration or anything like that would be feasible. But I wouldn't hold my breath on it, because my brain would run out of oxygen in five minutes.

[Razer]

Please don't make the mouse move slower, it's not even close to twitch for me. You just have to learn how to use it. Trust me, you CAN adapt.

[Xipe66]

Randomly autogenerated maps has to come back when handcrafting scenarios, it's the life and blood for the casual CMx'er.

No opinions as of yet regarding force selection, but it has already been mentioned it's a bit to restricted and that a points system would actually help alot; more granularity wouldn't hurt.

[ July 27, 2007, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Xipe66 ]

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by Sergei:

You see, it's not CMx1. That's been Moon's favourite phrase for the last year or so, so I'm sorry if you've heard it before. The point being, the game executes in real time regardless of whether you choose RT or WeGo; hence the CMx1 type "wait fifteen minutes and then skip the replay" WeGo mode just isn't possible.

I guess only Charles would know if acceleration or anything like that would be feasible. But I wouldn't hold my breath on it, because my brain would run out of oxygen in five minutes.

This is 100% a suggestion thread. Pull back on the rah-rah rabid fanboi crap and let people post their thoughts. Blah blah blah this isn't CMx1 blah blah blah. Well guess what? CMx1 was 10x the game that this is turning out to be. I've played the game for about 8 hours and there is marked de-evolution of UI usability.

I'm trying really really hard to like the game, but it's clunky. It's very clunky. So please spare us the "it's not CMx1" red herring BS, because it is BS. This patronizing fanboi crap get's pretty old.

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by Razer:

Please don't make the mouse move slower, it's not even close to twitch for me. You just have to learn how to use it. Trust me, you CAN adapt.

Well, perhaps I can make my thoughts clearer. The mouse based camera rotation happens at twitchy warp speed. Along with that, the 'window' that allows a player to move forward with the camera is much smaller than I'm used to, you almost have to have your cursor centered in the middle 20% of screen real estate to move forward, off to one side a bit too much and the super quick rotation begins.

So perhaps if the rotation didn't happen at warp 9 it wouldn't be so bothersome.

Anyone else notice the tab-locking for units isn't working well? Seems like more often than not the tab-locking leaves the unit off-screen.

[Xipe66]

metalbrew; There's no longer a difference between pre-calculating the outcome and the realtime resolution you see in CM2 WEGO. So it's kind of a moot point.

Just skip the replay if you think you saw everything you needed to see.

I don't see that this is a problem visavi CM1 -> CM2, because the outcome is the same. Or am I misunderstanding you?

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by Xipe66:

metalbrew; There's no longer a difference between pre-calculating the outcome and the realtime resolution you see in CM2 WEGO. So it's kind of a moot point.

Just skip the replay if you think you saw everything you needed to see.

I don't see that this is a problem visavi CM1 -> CM2, because the outcome is the same. Or am I misunderstanding you?

I think I've taken my fair share of the soapbox so I'll bow out of this thread after this reply.

It's not that I don't realize the replay can be skipped. I realize that the game doesn't calculate the outcome that same way that CMx1 did. The realtime view is literally a window into that calculation of the turn outcome. Instead of just showing a progress bar like in CMx1 the game shows you the combat unfolding in realtime. After that, it gives you the option to see it again with VCR controls.

It's not necessary for WeGo players to view the realtime portion. The reason I'm 'picking' on the realtime view is because it's the least flexible of the 2 ways you can watch the outcome of the turn. The player has no input or affect on the realtime version, it's just a cut-scene that you're forced to watch. I'm struggling to imagine any single benefit to having the realtime view for WeGo players.

[MoNuckah]

I would like to toggle " Show all Targets. Waypoints"

The hotkeys feel wonky. By having to select a sub-menu to get to actions, and by having over lapping hotkeys, it makes things confusing.

Also, how the heck do you place units for quick battles?

I keep having to sort out my vehicles after the game starts. Lame.

[PeterLorre86]

I agree with what metalbrew says about the replay system.

One more suggestion is to include WEGO TCP/IP. Having real time only forces you to play smaller scenarios, as you lose control with large forces.

[cow_cookie]

Good game overall. No regrets whatsoever. But here are my minor annoyances, some that people have said before:

1) I understand the reasoning for not being able to select the exact weapon to fire, but I just don't think it works well in practice. If you really need command approval to fire a javelin, and I'm the commander, well, I don't see why I can't tell my men to use a javelin.

2) I HATE having to wait through the full minute of gameplay in the early stages of the scenario. We should be able to skip past that. The artillery training missions were extremely boring solely because of this.

3) Why is it sometimes impossible for me to do area fire when I'm able to target an enemy directly? I wouldn't normally care, but I can't seem to get my MK19s going unless I do area fire. Again, if we could just direct the guys to use certain special weapons, it would resolve the problem.

4) I say this with absolutely no background, but does a single javelin really collapse three-story buildings? Eliminating insurgents certainly doesn't get any easier.

5) I'm still trying to get used to the waypoint system. The facing, in particular, is taking some getting used to. In CMBB, I could move a vehicle to a point on the map and then have them face in a certain direction. In CM:SO the facing seems to only be oriented on where the vehicle is at the time I'm giving the orders, not where it ends up. I'm sure I'm missing something, but it's not intuitive.

Not seeing any hardware issues, bad AI, etc. Like I said, still pleased with what I got.

[Exel]

Make the left-click drag the map instead of pushing the camera. In other words, invert the mouse axis.

When you click the map and drag it right, the map should move to the right, not to the left. That's the standard interface everywhere, from your Acrobat Reader to military C3 applications. The way it works now is just counter-intuitive.

[Exel]

Way to create WeGo play for TCP/IP RealTime games:

- Force an automatic pause every 60 seconds.

- Unpause only at the request of both players.

- Prevent commands being given when the games is not paused.

There you have it, a WeGo system for TCP/IP games without long file transfer times. You only miss on replays, but as it is a multiplayer maybe it's only a good thing (don't have to wait for the other guy to finish watching the replay for the 5th time).