Too much friendly fire?

[Holman]

I was just playing the campaign mission "Dar al as Something" (the flank attack to take some city crossroads and the Airport Hotel). Night falls over the course of the scenario, and when the light gets low the friendly fire really picks up. Some of the results seem pretty unrealistic.

For instance, I had three US rifle squads in line. I sent one forward to an objective about 250 yards ahead, with the other squads providing cover (no orders). When the first reached its assigned location, the other two started opening up on it! This was in addition to the other squads that were firing on the first three from about 300 yards to their 5 o'clock.

Another example: US rifle squads firing on a Stryker in the clear from about 200 yards away. I would think the silhouette would give it away, even through IR goggles.

I've heard that friendly small arms fire has no effect, and I didn't see any wounds. Since it has no effect and looks ridiculous (in addition to wasting ammo), I'd love to see it greatly toned down.

[SgtMuhammed]

Is this new? Since 1.04 I have noticed random shots coming from reserve troops. I will have to play in WEGO to make sure but there just seem to be shots coming from places where I know there are no enemy. I didn't notice this in earlier versions.

[Melnibone]

I played that mission last night - WEGO veteran -and did not notice any of that. Are you playing Elite?

[SgtMuhammed]

Yes. Elite RT.

[Holman]

Real-time Elite here.

[Pandur]

i played the same scenario in 1.04

i had the same problems. its far too much FF going on. soldiers shot AT4´s at their own bradleys, nearly reguar. my sniperteam going mad on the team in the opposite building.

the syrians in that scenario where a joke. some technicals got blastet and the syrian squads in houses where as blind as a blind guy. i cleared 3 houses with just 1 squad by fasting from one to the other. the guys where prone and did nothing. didnt saw me runing towards the entrance in front of them.

i mean i would understand if this scenario indroduces a new enemy to you, friendly fire, becouse my own guys used more ammo on themselfs than on the "not present" enemy.

the only other scenario where i had that much or more FF going on was one of the chechen war scenarios, the one with the crashed hind.

it seems to have bad light too, and my own guys foreced me to withdraw more or less, they shot themselfs

and thats clearly too much i think.

[MikeyD]

What's the skill level of the troops in that scenario? Green? Veteran? I picked up a 3rd party scenario out of cmmods.com the other day, the U.S. forces turned out to be conscript level or something. I've never seen my own aircraft so thoroughly straff friendly troops since CMBB days!

[Pandur]

hehe, acually i dont know. in the campain scenario they must be about regular or above becouse its a US force and its the stock campain. i never saw a US guy below regular so far in the stock scenarios or campain.

the chechen war scenario gave me BTR60 mech infantry. i guess between conscript and regular. mostly in the "green" area.

however, the same units shot repeatedly on the same units. its not like they "remember" that the unit they shot at 40! seconds befor is still their own. i had AGS17 there , needless to say what they did to my squads...

in the end i had to pack up all overwatch into the btr´s becous they shot the units they should overwatch painfully often, really regular since about half way into the scenario. it was war in my own ranks...its hard to fight with such a force.

[Sgt Joch]

friendly fire is a fact of life in modern warfare. I have not seen that it is worse than RL in the game.

some tips:

1. deconflict - keep units separate with a clean LOF to the enemy positions. This is standard in modern warfare. CMx1 was cartoonish in this aspect, you could shoot through friendly units no problem, CMx2 is much closer to RL;

2. use covered arcs - tell your units exactly what they are allowed to shoot at, establish their ROE. If you let them shoot all over the map, they will shoot first and ask questions later, as all well trained soldiers will do;

3. air strike - don't call in an air strike within 500 meters of friendly units...found this out the hard way :eek: ;

If you follow these simple common sense tips, which is in fact what is done in RL, you will see friendly fire incidents go way down.

[Bullseye]

I had a squad fire both their AT-4 to the Stryker they disembarked 30 seconds earlier.

Thank god both of them missed.

This was in 1.04 version

[Secondbrooks]

My guys were seeing their own. Played Baker_1_1 (knocked out M1 and immobilized M1 during night/dusk) on elite and guys were shooting at nothing. Maybe couple of times they tried to shoot friendlies, one pesky SAW "i-gun-my-friends" gunner to be presice... Luckily he shot high above targets. But usually they were shooting to air with out any specific target: they sprayed a short but intense hail of lead to somewhat wide area. I saw this happening three or four times during mission.

These "loosetrigger" fellows didn't see any action during mission, they were just watching-and-watching my other flank in middle of palmtrees... Maybe those palms tricked them or they got bored? Funny thing is that it looked like other guys inside or ontop of buildings didn't shoot like that...

I have newest version. This 1.04

[Holman]

Originally posted by Sgt.Joch:

friendly fire is a fact of life in modern warfare. I have not seen that it is worse than RL in the game.

some tips:

1. deconflict - keep units separate with a clean LOF to the enemy positions. This is standard in modern warfare. CMx1 was cartoonish in this aspect, you could shoot through friendly units no problem, CMx2 is much closer to RL;

[...]

I agree entirely. But I've seen too many situations in the game where units covering a platoon-mate's advance start firing on the platoon-mate when it gets a couple hundred yards ahead. I'd expect the nearby coverers to know who they're covering and not mistake them for enemy.

[Sgt Joch]

Originally posted by Martyr:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sgt.Joch:

friendly fire is a fact of life in modern warfare. I have not seen that it is worse than RL in the game.

some tips:

1. deconflict - keep units separate with a clean LOF to the enemy positions. This is standard in modern warfare. CMx1 was cartoonish in this aspect, you could shoot through friendly units no problem, CMx2 is much closer to RL;

[...]

I agree entirely. But I've seen too many situations in the game where units covering a platoon-mate's advance start firing on the platoon-mate when it gets a couple hundred yards ahead. I'd expect the nearby coverers to know who they're covering and not mistake them for enemy. </font>

[thelmia]

That's the one I did by simply shelling everything. Didn't fire a single round other than 155.

[Pandur]

Sgt.Joch

I have not seen that it is worse than RL in the game.

you have to belive me that i played quiet some CMSF games now and i NEVER saw any "abnormal" FF incident except in this both missions.

and i belive that when you play a game in sometime and see such an unnatural amount of FF going on you will also wonder whats going on there with your buddys

that must be some special conditions wich trigger such insane amounts of FF, as said i just saw it twice.

2. use covered arcs - tell your units exactly what they are allowed to shoot at, establish their ROE. If you let them shoot all over the map, they will shoot first and ask questions later, as all well trained soldiers will do;

i had to find out in this scenarios that this helps exactly nothing. i use cover arcs verry much and all of my guys had an arc, but still did they go mad at their own guys outside of their arc.