Field Marshal Blücher Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I've not played much as the Syrians, especially not in situations with heavy armour, but I was messing around with the prospect of creating a Red-vs-Red campaign and I noticed the following problem with unbuttoned T-72s: I apologize if this has already been made known to the developers, but I hadn't heard about this. Settings: RT Veteran 1.08. -FMB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Are you referring to the “cross section”? If not, what are you referring to? If you are, then I don’t see this as a bug. This “cross sectioning” happens with every vehicle and did also in CMX1 titles. If you pick level 1 or 2 and hit tab you will be behind the vehicle. If you then move the camera slowly forward it moves “through” the vehicle generating cross sections as you go. eventually all you will see is a circle for the barrel. In fact I quite enjoy the detail provided in the cross sections, instead of a black empty box that they could have settled for. Again if its not the “cross sectioning” please post some more details. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Sorry, wasn't very clear what the problem was, and maybe the picture's too small to tell. What I mean is that the commander is clipping through the hatch cover. His chest is inside a large, solid piece of metal. I too enjoy the cross-section quite a bit! -FMB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 T-72 TC commander: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 That looks painful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 FMB, It seems like the TC should be just a little bit to the front. MarkEzra, I see no problem in your screens... Those hatches open just in half so the space for the TC is very small. - 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I got it. The machine gun in the Russian tanks faces back. The hatch only opens the back half, a tiny space really. The axis of the TC is in that back half. Once the machine gun is turned to face the front the empty half of the hatch turns to the front leaving the closed one through the body of the TC. I don't think it is possible to change the center point of the body of the TC with the movement of the machine gun. In RL the TC needs to move forward as he turns his machine gun. This is a typical example of a simple detail that has no effect in the game but that we might notice and that would be nice to fix. But if the game engine does not have this as an option, then to code this in might be extremely time consuming for no practical benefit. Now, one easy way around this would be to have the machine gun default position facing forward and adjust the axis of the TC accordingly. Since most the time it will be facing forward anyway. I'm imagining this hatch design is meant to protect the body of the TC exposing only his eyes above the half opened part. That's why this is the default position. If he ever need to fire the machine gun then he will need to expose his body and the cover of the opened half hatch will go to his back. - - [ April 07, 2008, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: Webwing ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Originally posted by Webwing: Now, one easy way around this would be to have the machine gun default position facing forward and adjust the axis of the TC accordingly. Since most the time it will be facing forward anyway.Why? Most of the time it faces the rear as that is what the designers (of the tank, not CM:SF) envisaged. That is why as you yourself said “its the default position”. It only comes forward on those occasions where the crew commander decides to use the MG which certainly wont be “most of the time”. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Hey Mark, you are right. You probably didn't read my last paragraph, since usually you are already posting while I'm editing it. I said it would be an easy half "fix", but yes, not necessarily a desired one. But as I wondered about the design (last paragraph) I realized the intention behind it. So I'd rather live with the visual problem, if that is the case. Personally it doesn't bother me at all. Funny that most western tanks have their machine guns facing the front though. Even the one for the TC, when there is one. I assumed that's how it would be used most of the time. - 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 They are primarily there for air defence (albeit probably of little use). Its only recently that western armour has been committed to urban environments (compared to say the northern German plain idea which prevailed when the M1 was designed) and close in defence systems have gained a higher priority as can be seen by the M1 TUSK programme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Originally posted by Webwing: MarkEzra, I see no problem in your screens... - Really? funny I didn't either.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A1TC Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Thats the difference between russian tanks and American. Our TC's hatch opens toward the back, and then can be locked open half-way. Russian TC is protected by the hatch while he fires the MG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 Hmm. It looks like if the gun is facing the right way, it's not clipping through him. OK, that makes sense then; I don't think it's worth using any of the devs' time to fix that. -FMB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Originally posted by MarkEzra: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Webwing: MarkEzra, I see no problem in your screens... - Really? funny I didn't either.... </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Originally posted by Field Marshal Blücher: Hmm. It looks like if the gun is facing the right way, it's not clipping through him. OK, that makes sense then; I don't think it's worth using any of the devs' time to fix that. -FMB Well, I don't think so either. But the thread brought up some interesting observations about the differences in design of the hatches and the use of the machine gun. It's very clever design to use half the hatch as a shield. It makes the TC a bit more uncomfortable but then again who expects comfort in a tank! - 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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