Guardsman Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Hi, I know this has been touched on in previous threads, but it has really come to the fore in the Hasrabit campaign. I've played the first three missions, and in mission 2 and 3, I have had a huge problem with friendly fire. I know that playing as the Syrians may lead to a higher level of "fog of war" and in mission 2 you have a lot of low level troops who may tend to be more trigger happy. However, playing WEGO, which I feel is the only way to do it due to the number of units, the troops open up on their comrades from as little as 60m away. Mission 3 is even worse. I had some BMP's and T72's advance past some friendlies in a trench, and the infantry started firing at them when they had advanced a short distance. I know that small arms fire against other friendlies does not cause casualties, but RPG fire certainly does, and it is also a real problem if you are trying to conserve ammo. For those that haven't played the Hasrabit, it is at night and I play elite Wego. Has anyone else suffered these problems and what is your take on it? Realistic? A bug? I'd be interested to hear others views. Incidentally, the campaign is fantastic, and I'm in no way critising it's design but more a particular part of the game engine. Cheers, Darren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 i am glad iam not the only one "seeing" this. i placed some suggestions/comments by makeing a thread about 1.08 some time ago, it did go by rather unnoticed or noone felt it is important. however, FF was one of the points i brought up. i found if you dont "hide" your militia from themselfs in these missions, you will see that they render themselfs combat ineffective without ever beeing near the enemy(mostly through wasteing ammo big time). if there are exposives in the mix like RPG´s than it can get really bad. it doesnt sound positive or constructive, but when you really think out of the game into reality, than that cant be realistic in "any" way. as exaple you position 2 squads next to each other behind a wall, after some turn they decide to shoot at each other. i mean this guys cant be that incompetent to forgett that they walked alongside their buddies to that point, took position directly next to the other squad, but after some turns suddenly they think their the enemy. sure, i know that the game doesnt have a "feel" for realistic FF and unrealistic FF by itself, one have to work that out somehow. iam not mad or so but i think its "totaly" over the top. however, i let all go i had to say in that thread, first post http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=004259 i stoped playing nigh missions on red side as i find it really annoying at best, up to the point where it kills my enjoyment of the REDvsRED low light missions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handihoc Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I've mentioned it in the Hasrabit campaign thread in the Scenarios forum. Other players have also discussed it. Yes, it's a great campaign,and yes, FF is a problem, particularly for me in mission 2, but also 3, as you say. It's great that FF is included in the game, but it's quite excessive now when playing with low level troops. Possibly it wasn't such an issue before the improvements of v1.08. Hopefully, it'll be addressed and moderated soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Originally posted by Guardsman: I know that small arms fire against other friendlies does not cause casualties, but RPG fire certainly does, and it is also a real problem if you are trying to conserve ammo. I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that 'unintentional' friendly small arms fire couldn't cause casualties (unit wanders into area fire target or line of fire of friendly unit targetting hostile). But 'intentional' friendly fire from small arms could cause casualties (when the unit mis-identifies a friendly unit as hostile and deliberately targets it). As I said, I may be wrong, and haven't exactly tested it myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Two sides with identical equipment, marginal command and control, some poor quality and operating in the dark. Its like putting a wet finger into a plug socket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 Combatintman, Thats a good and valid point you raise, but I'm not sure the AI is THAT good that it would take those factors into account regarding the same equipment. If it does, then even more respect to Charles, Steve & co. However, even with that taken into account, when a unit watches it's own tanks roll by, and then opens up on them within 30 secs, I think that is taking things a touch too far. Regards, Darren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Guardsman, I've never played this campaign because my rig won't cope with the framerates - so I knew my statement lacked some context - however I felt it was worth adding a reality check in there as well before the thread degenerated into the 'this game totally sucks' mode. Point taken however - a touch too far indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I have to agree with Guardsman, friendly fire at night is realistic ( I should know, I have been the victim of "friendly" Bradley fire ), but the extent to which I sometimes see it happen in-game is almost comical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 but the extent to which I sometimes see it happen in-game is almost comical. i see it the same. its good for a laugh when you have your troops hidden and hear constant shooting in the enemy attack coloum. you know they dont shoot at you, so there is just one other option left 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Yeah, I agree that it could be doing with being toned down a bit. 1.08 REALLY made FF a major issue when playing as Red at night. Mission 2, Strong Stand, became utterly unplayable after I installed 1.08 and I had to make the conscripts green to make it work. But even with the improvement in quality, they were still much harder to handle than the conscripts in 1. I felt that 1.07 had the better balance for FF than 1.08. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman Posted May 26, 2008 Author Share Posted May 26, 2008 Thanks for the responses guys. Combatintman, I know where you are coming from with regards to the degeneration of threads. Makes me wonder why Steve bothers reading the forums sometimes, let alone posting responses! Paper Tiger, hats off to you mate, fantastic campaign, that really challenges, and makes a pleasant change from the USvSyria games. Regards, Darren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Normal Dude: Would you mind giving some details about that FF incident with the Bradley? Sounds interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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