Why must I die? (Campaign 1st Battle Spoiler)

[heywheresmysnack]

I can't even get past the freaking first mission! Why do I keep trying? Because I enjoy the game thoroughly.

I've tried every combination of units. Even assaulting some entrenched baddies with infantry. I'm tried flanking, I've tried pounding them to dust with artillery. I just can't seem to make it out with even half my forces intact. In fact I've never made it out period.

I lose all my Abrams at once and figure I need to try again. So I do. And I do. I just find myself firing constantly at baddies across the way or taking fire from people I can't see, then the Syrians get tanks up and attack mine before I can even see them. I have a spotter up on the hill and that helps some but its not that great if I can't move my tanks in the area to engaged the majority of the stationary tanks without losing half of them.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. Time for another go I suppose. This is on the easiest setting by the way. I love this game very much and it has actually made me decide to go and invest in a few of the previous titles.

edited to increase readability

[ August 10, 2007, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ]

[molotov_billy]

Strange. This one wasn't too hard.. you're going to have some issues with the 2nd mission

Leave two Abrams up on the berm for the duration of the mission. They'll take care of all armored reinforcements that the Syrians get without you ever having to touch them. Have them take out the MG bunkers with a single shot each. Use your FO to call in artillery on the trench lines - use linear fire (you'll have to zoom in to see the trenches) with the "personnel" option so that they use airburst fire. A short-ish barrage should take care of the majority of them.

Form up the rest of your units at the front of the highway, use them to spot the trench lines on that side of the map. Again, use air-burst artillery on the trench lines covering the highway. Use "general" artillery munitions with whatever ammo you have left to level the two main lines of buildings, again useing linear fire.

Use your strykers and abrams to clean up the rest until the syrians capitulate. You don't ever have to dismount a single squad, or have anyone enter a building. If you ever run out of artillery, the MGS strykers are just as adequate at taking out buildings. If you run out of ammo with them, have your teams grab javelins from the strykers and level whatever is left.

[Capt. Toleran]

I'm wondering how it is you are losing your Abrams -- they should almost be immune to anything the enemy can throw at them on that particular mission (with the exception of flank shots). Are you talking about the very first mission from the campaign? Move the Abrams just past the sand berm, make sure they face the compound and trenches, let them shoot all the tanks they see. Don't move them up too much, they are plenty lethal far away, and this makes sure you don't get hit in the flanks. Frontal armor on Abrams is extremely strong.

Meanwhile, load up a few squads with Javelins (the Acquire command when they are in the Strykers, and don't forget the launcher) and post them on top of the berm, and at the end of the berm. That way they will still cover you from tanks as you move your forces up. You can always put them back in the Strykers to complete the mission.

Drop a crapload of artillery on the trenches and main building block facing you. Be sure to use the spotter or a leader with high leadership values, otherwise the delay will be significant. Use "Personnel" rounds on the trenches, they airburst for greater lethality.

Finally, never unload your troops or get a vehicle within 200m of a building unless the shooters in those buildings are supressed. Make good use of your 40mm nade Stryker, that one is one of the best at taking out inf in both buildings and trenches.

[KNac]

um after a couple of tries i managed to complete the first mission with just 1 WIA and 0 vehicled damaged

some kick adviced that worked for me:

1) use firepower to the full extent; with distance when you can, your optics & spotting is much better as well as accuracy. arty is a damn killer, a light AP barrage and you kill several squads, so use it.

2) don't dismount if it's not absolutly neccessary, avoid it at all costs, and if you do, it must be with full security measures and aplying supressing fire to any dangerous spot.

3) mantein some unit cohesion, group your tanks or strykers (just not that much that the poor pathfinding will screw it or an AT team will ruin your whole force), 4 eyes are better than 2, and 2 cannons better than 1

4) proceed slowly to unknown places! just dont rush, let your units spot enemies and punish them w/o concession

hi thre and glad you are enjoying the game. btw what difficult setting are you using?

[heywheresmysnack]

I'm on the lowest one. I'm not sure what its called.

I haven't tried moving any tanks up on the berm so I will try that next.

[heywheresmysnack]

Wow. First 20 seconds into the battle and all the entrenched tanks have been disabled. The two tanks up there did WONDERS. Had one tank get hit by a shell and it ricocheted harmlessly away.

[Xavier_1986]

Pfft, you guys are babies. "Never dismount infantry". Hogwash! Here's what I did. Carefully planned and timed this attack out before I did the battle and it worked like a charm.

Set up the Abrams on the berms, on overwatch. I had them all move into the enemy's view simultaneously and they had no problem destroying the immobilized T55s. Strykers move down the highway with cover arcs, engaging targets at their whim. The Strykers loaded with infantry (1st Platoon) are sent to the middle of the map, directly in front of the target building but out of RPG range. Until the time hit 35 minutes I was suppressing and destroying targets with my M1s, Strykers, and targetting the trenches with 81s and 105s set to target personnel. The idea is to decimate primarily the infantry trenches on the left so they don't interfere with the rest of my plans.

At 35:00 my Abrams target the two towers on other side of the white barracks inside the fortress. These buildings are destroyed. They target and damage every tall building inside the fortress with the exception of the two barracks facilities. At which point I have them blow three or four large holes in the walls just infront of the large white barracks structure.

33:00 all of my Strykers started pounding the white barracks facility. Abrams were on overwatch at this point, watching for Syrian armor reinforcements. The objective is to suppress the very real RPG threat as much as possible before the infantry goes in.

30:00 I start the main assault. The four Strykers carrying 1st PLT move in at fast speed, area firing their particular section of the wall that the infantry will go into. You need to work fast here, this is -the- most dangerous moment of the entire battle. I remove all area fire on the building once they get close enough, to limit friendly casualties, and let the AI target enemies on its own. So any Syrians on the upper floors who shoot at my men as they debus, the Stryker AIs will spot and shoot on their own. This they did to great effect. Infantry debus at close range and assault forward through the breaches while Strykers engage Syrians shooting at them. 1st Platoon made it in with minimal losses and cleared the building after some CQC.

Here's where the improvising starts. The white facility is secure at about 23:00 or so, 1st Platoon inside takes up firing positions at the opposite window and begins engaging Syrians inside the compound. Infantry on the second floor, MG teams on the third. This produced intense fighting and more than one of my soldiers was killed or wounded by fire.

All this time the 105s have been blasting the trenches on -both- sides of the compound. Now once 1st Platoon was engaged and suppressing the enemy inside the fortress I started the -main- assault. Leading with the Abrams, Strykers with the cannons right behind them, and 2nd Platoon with their Strykers right behind them, I attacked down the highway moving at relatively quick speed. No cover arcs, AI does a good job of spotting and shooting targets on its own. The armor and apcs burst the main gates, putting fire on everything that moves inside the fortress.

Fast, fast, fast. That's the name of the game here. The Abrams and Strykers put fire on everything inside, and all fire on 1st Platoon practically ceases at this point. 2nd Platoon's Strykers take them up to the primary barracks facility at fast move right away, and they debus and attack under cover of smoke. The Syrians are pretty much overwhelmed by the attack at this point and are not capable of offering serious resistance. At about 15:00 they laid down arms and surrendered just as 2nd Platoon entered the main objective.

All told, my casualties were 5 dead and 11 wounded. One Abrams was destroyed by a Syrian tank by a shot to its exposed side armor while it was on the berm. It burned up and the entire crew was killed or wounded. Also one of my forward observers was hit and probably killed by a shell off a T55 that had been aimed at my Abrams but missed. 2nd plt lost one guy in the attack on the main objective and an Abrams was immobilized by an RPG inside the fortress. The rest of the casualties were sustained by 1st Plt during its attack.

Anyway, that's how I did it yesterday. I just can't stand the thought of -not- using my infantry.

[Battlefront.com]

Welcome heywheresmysnack ,

The Abrams is vulnerable from the side. The way I've played this is similar to those above, but I don't use the Berm or Javelins. What I do is get my Abrams, 4 abreast, on the "friendly" side of the gap in the berm. Sometimes I can get shot off at the entrenched tanks that are there, other times not. I then advance them SLOWLY through the gap to the other side and have two rotate slightly towards the open area where the bulk of the tanks are. The other two cover their flanks. Let the Abrams do their work while the Strykers get formed up.

I pepper the trenches guarding the entrance to the base with Anti-Personnel artillery using the FIST (or is it just an FO Team? I forget). While this fun is going on I move my Strykers out of the berm after the enemy tank threat has been neutralized. When I feel the artillery has done what I want it to do, I leave two Abrams that are facing the open area where they are and advance with two Abrams and the Rifle Platoon's Strykers. I lead with the Abrams so if there are any surprises they are the ones that find them. The Bunkers should already have been neutralized by the Abrams and/or MGS. If not, do so now

When I'm pretty sure the trenches have been cleared I disembark the Strykers at the road junction to the complex. I then use Quick to get to the wall and use the trenches on one side. From there I lead the Abrams ahead a bit to make sure nobody wants to oppose my entry. If someone does, the Abrams lets them have it and the infantry mops up.

I use the infantry to assault into the compex and I take the two guard houses by gate. I put one MMG team on each roof and have them Deploy Weapon. With my infantry in place I zoom the Abrams in and wait for someone to shoot at them. Between the Abrams and infantry I can make pretty quick work of it. Then I move the Abrams in a bit further and them bring in the Strykers. Very much like enlarging a Bridgehead. The infantry then concentrates on taking the objectives while the Strykers, Abrams, and MMG teams provide overwatch.

Last time I played I had one Abrams disabled and suffered a handful of infantry wounded. I don't think I lost anybody, but I could be making my victory overly glorious in my mind

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Oh yeah... most important thing... TAKE YOUR TIME!! A rushed assault is usually a bloody one for your forces. Take your time, pick apart their defenses, concentrate on those that still offer resistance, and then overwhelm what remains with a consolidated dismounted assault to clean up the survivors.

The problem with the "stay mounted" mentality is that if the enemy gets a lucky shot off at the Strykers, you could wind up with a lot of casualties. Charging into the barracks, for example, with vehicles only is quite risky. I'm not saying it can't work, but It's quite risky. Especially if you don't know what is in there.

Steve

[molotov_billy]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

I put one MMG team on each roof and have them Deploy Weapon.

Dirty lies! Unless you're playing a version where that bug is fixed? US MMG's cannot deploy their weapons on rooftops or inside buildings. There have been a couple threads about it.

[molotov_billy]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Charging into the barracks, for example, with vehicles only is quite risky. I'm not saying it can't work, but It's quite risky.

Steve

Definately. It's sort of a per map thing. On this occasion, I just never had to go inside the compound sine they can be destroyed by fire from a distance.

[ August 10, 2007, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: molotov_billy ]

[Battlefront.com]

Yeah, I saw that thread and meant to double check it. Quite a puzzle since never, ever has this been a problem through months of development. Oh wait... now I think I know what the issue is. Yeah, you can use them inside and on the roof, but you can only use DEPLOY if the roof has a low wall or no wall. At least that's the way it is supposed to work. Deploy means setting up on the tripod, which isn't possible (or practical) for windows and tall wall roofs. I'll double check that you can do what I described.

Steve

[heywheresmysnack]

Hrm... Okay. Well it looks like a victory for me! I'm inside the compound. Only "casualty" I had was the track of an Abram's. I wonder now if its possible to capture a building that is only rubble...

[Bradley Dick]

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.....

First, I don't remember what the cardinal directions for the map were. So I'll call the friendly edge of the map South. I started by mounting the berm with two M1's and destroying the armor on the Eastern side of the map. My other two M1's mounted the berm and began targeting the little shacks that had MG's in them on the West side.

Next, I moved my MGS Strykers to the Highway and moved them slowly in a line formation up the highway. My M1's were constantly being ordered to shift fire to any threats I saw fit to waste HEAT rounds on(MG bunkers, the guard towers on the compounds, any leadership units).

After my MGS had advanced forward about half the distance to the trenchline on the western edge, I pulled all my Strykers through the berm and extended the line to the western edge of the map. I kept my leader and my FO Stryker behind the line. Then, using my FO, I called in mortars with airburst in a linear pattern for the western trenches. During the bombardment, I shifted my M1's on the western side down from the berm. I moved them north of my MGS Strykers.

Once that bombardment was over, I closed in on the trenchline with my Stryers. At the same time, I advanced my MGS and M1's up the road. I targeted the NW tower and blew it all to hell. Using a sort of wheel movement, I turned my M1's, my MGS, and my Stryker with the 40mm east so that they were facing the compound. My infantry carriers were slightly offset and to the rear of the "Heavy" line. I used my M1's to pound the guard shacks and the far east building in the compound.

Then, I began pounding the two large buildings with my artillery. Linear pattern, general purpose, called in by the FO. During all this, my eastern two M1's sat on the berm blasting tanks that appeared. At this point, I pulled them down from the berm. I brought them through the breach, keeping on the south side of the compound and moved them at dangerously close positions near the eastern trenches. They really started coaxing the hell out of the trenches then.

At some point, between the call for fire and the M1 manuever, an AT team blasted one of my MGS Strykers. Catastrophic loss, all crew dead. Once the M1's to the East fixed the enemy with fire,I brought my FO track to the rear of their position. My last artillery barrage was a linear, airburst, targeted at the eastern trenchline. Then, I split my forces. I left the M1's, the MGS, and the CO Stryker just inside the compound (once the artillery was well sighted in).

Lastly, I manuevered my Strykers around the north side of the compound and brought them up the rear flank of the poor eastern trenches. Another little wheel manuever, some .50 cal in the backs, and the enemy surrendered.

Absolute slaughter of the enemy, leveled the two main buildings and captured the compound. Unfortunately, I did lose a Stryker and its crew. But, guessing by where it was killed, they never had a chance. Had to be an AT strike on the top of the vehicle, just judging by LOS.

Better to die a fast fiery death in a track than to bleed out in the dirt.

[dan/california]

The problem with the "stay mounted" mentality is that if the enemy gets a lucky shot off at the Strykers, you could wind up with a lot of casualties. Charging into the barracks, for example, with vehicles only is quite risky. I'm not saying it can't work, but It's quite risky. Especially if you don't know what is in there.

It is only risky if the compound is still standing.

It is much safer if it has been reduced to a low spot in the ground. :eek:

I also got enormous milage by sending javelin teams up on the berm with the M1s. You just can't put them close to the tanks or they take casualties when the Abrams take fire. If you use all the firepower you have available the Syrians have no effective response in this scenario.

[heywheresmysnack]

Okay. I finished the mission with just one wounded. For some reason, the crew of an Abrams tank dismounted after completing its move order right next to entrenched infantry.

Anywho, much better. You guys are great. I learned much from this mission. Sorry I didn't put a spoiler warning on the topic. My bad yo.

[Pandur]

but you can only use DEPLOY if the roof has a low wall or no wall.

but steve, did you never see the bursts getting deflected upwards by the "small" walls!?

one time i depolyed a MG on such a roof with little wall(acuall i thought it was a bug). was the syrian 12.7mm.

basicly the first bullet in a burst came through, the rest kicked 90° up into the air by the wall.

i just saw it once, but i also deployed a MG just once on a roof, so it should be easy to reproduce