Do the LOS calculation use pure 3D geometry? Or use a bit of clever shortcut?

[popllt]

If using pure 3D geometry to calculate LOS, it must take into account the stature of soldiers,the depth of a concave, and the high of a wall, even the position of the window,etc. I hope I am correct.

I also want to know how the LOS is simulated in the house and throught the hurst. It seem that it is a complex calculation when in the house.

Thanks!

[ November 07, 2007, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: popllt ]

[Cpl Steiner]

popllt,

It is definitely pure 3D geometry. You can prove this yourself using the "Target" command. Select a unit and then execute the target command so that you are in the process of picking a target. Now move the cursor so the target line passes through some trees or even the railings on a balcony. Making small movements of the cursor you should see that LOS is blocked by actual tree trunks and railings. I was quite impressed when I discovered this. The only problem is that once you actually click on a target the target line snaps to the underlying grid. I would prefer it if it actually stayed where you placed it.

[EDIT] Small correction: The target command shows the Line of Fire (LOF) rather than the LOS. LOS is abstracted using the underlying grid of 8m squares. Thus, you may spot an enemy but not be able to shoot at it. This is not ideal, as I'm sure everyone would agree. However, given the limits of modern day home computers, it may be unavoidable.

[ November 07, 2007, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Steiner ]

[aka_tom_w]

then there is the little issue of the "grey area" of action spots which I thought (but I could be wrong) is the center point of each virtual 8m square that underlies the map that you can't see that has some sort of impact on LOS.

Small correction: The target command shows the Line of Fire (LOF) rather than the LOS. LOS is abstracted using the underlying grid of 8m squares. Thus, you may spot an enemy but not be able to shoot at it. This is not ideal, as I'm sure everyone would agree. However, given the limits of modern day home computers, it may be unavoidable.

I think it might be correct to assume it is ABSOLUTLEY unavoidable due to computer hardware limitations.

[ November 07, 2007, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[yapma]

Thanks Tom. I believe it is absolutely unavoidable for a real time version of the game. I seem to recall that WEGO CMx1 had greater LOS fidelity than the current real time game.

[MikeyD]

Some of this 'grey area' appears to be designed-in. You transition from solid LOS to partial to a hull-down equivalent. LOS is not binary. Any Maine deer hunter could tell you that. Just because you know the buck's there doesn't mean you've got a clean shot at him. And if you 'assume' you could wind up shooting a housewife in her back yard wearing white mittens.

[thewood]

Funny you mention the white mitten thing. I was just talking to my dad about that incident this weekend.

[hoolaman]

Originally posted by popllt:

If using pure 3D geometry to calculate LOS, it must take into account the stature of soldiers,the depth of a concave, and the high of a wall, even the position of the window,etc. I hope I am correct.

I also want to know how the LOS is simulated in the house and throught the hurst. It seem that it is a complex calculation when in the house.

Thanks!

An excellent question that has been asked in many forms but has to my knowledge never been answered in an official or unofficial way.

Steve has said that LOS is based on action spots. Okay we know that. Is there ANY more finely resolved LOS calculation than these 8x8 tiles?

There really needs to be for a military sim where the difference between a turret down observation point and a smoking wreck may be a matter of inches.

Originally posted by MikeyD:

Some of this 'grey area' appears to be designed-in. You transition from solid LOS to partial to a hull-down equivalent. LOS is not binary.

A person trying to hide in a combat situation may do so with varying degrees of success. But that relates to identification not whether you can see something or not. LOS really is binary, at least for the spotter. If you stick your head over the top of a trench to have a look around, it is a world of difference between three seconds ago when all you could see was dirt.

If you extend that to a vehicle's sensor package popping over a crest, it is everything in a game like this.