Slat armor, or "where the feck did my RPG just go"?

[Flanker15]

I was wondering if when I shoot slat armor with a RPG and it disappears on impact, is that the slat armor doing it's job?

Also I've lost several other types of warheads in the same way shooting slat armor:

At-3, At-4, At-6, RPG-29, RPG7 T-HEAT and BMP1 main gun projectiles.

[ May 11, 2008, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Flanker15 ]

[Huntarr]

yes

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=003369

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=003242#000000

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=002033

[Flanker15]

So will slat armor actually make the warhead vanish (no boom), not just explode away from the hull? Those threads don't seem to go into it. Also should it work against the newer RPG-29s and AT-11s?

[Huntarr]

yes the warhead is defeated by crimping the firing mechanism. There are AAR that have RPG's stuck in the slat armor.

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Cpl, if we did remove the armor visually then the engine wouldn’t be able to account for it with regards to hit detection, as it uses true LOS for such things. As such a vehicle without it would be treated as just that. The same is true for reactive armor by the way, allowing shots to find weak spots that the bricks might not cover.

Also its interesting to note that the armor is apparently not designed to detonate an RPG as such, but rather crush the outer casing which then damages the warheads fusing mechanism. Ive read reports of Strykers returning to base with more more than one warhead actually stuck in the slats. This only works on warheads designed before the 80's, but this includes much of the worlds inventory still.

Ill also add that it doesnt look quite so ugly when viewed from higher than eye level, which you often are in game

Dan

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[Huntarr]

You are correct also“Cage armor” that either prevents the rocket’s piezo-electric “crush fuze” from detonating – or forces the warhead to detonate away from the armor underneath, ‘unfocusing’ its killer blast.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/files/1976_USAR_TRADOC_RPG-7_SEC-UNCLAS.pdf

You know that it can be defeated by a cloth netting system also?

[Secondbrooks]

Originally posted by Adam1:

Interesting, I thought it worked by detonating the RPG too far from the hull for the explosive jet to matter. If it does detonate on the cage, will it harm the vehicle? (irl)

I've heard that half of penetrating power from PG-7 is cut during distance it flies from cage to armor (nothing official however). I figure that it goes thru, but effects after armor penetration are reduced quite a much.

[Sardaukar]

It is actually also about deforming the cone that is essential to create the penetrating jet (warhead-crushing). Thus, slat armour works even against many HEAT rounds with more advanced trigger mechanism than PG-7, albeit not as well.

In some cases, detonating HEAT round further away from armour can actually improve it's penetration, depending on it's designed stand-off distance.

[Secondbrooks]

Yes. But usually all HEAT-warheads are designed to be in most effective distance from armor when fuze is ignited. There might be some specially designed warheads for slatarmor, which for example some middle-east contries produces (or is planning it).

Deforming happens if greande goes between slats, that won't happen if greande's nose hits directly to slat, when it blows up just like it should.

[MikeyD]

I recall reading in an old RPG assessment that early detonation distance had to be considerable (4 ft or more?) before the HEAT jet lost sufficient energy. These were guideline for setting up chickenwire perimeter fences in the Vietnam days. Standard RPG HEAT warhead's 85mm (3.34 inch) diameter. I'd bet the slat bars are at 3" spacing. Not enough to allow the round through but still VERY hard to hit the bar dead-on.

[Edited] The slat bare might be a bit under 3", now that I think of it. I saw a photo of a Mt. Dew soda can wedged between a Stryker's Slat bars . Those aluminum cans are 2 5/8 inches diameter

[ April 09, 2008, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[Pandur]

sorry for reviving the thread but while browsing the pages i found this.

is it clear now if the slat cage should also work as good versus all other HEAT warheads as versus lowest quality RPG7 rockets!?

[Battlefront.com]

Yeah, cutting down a HEAT round's effectiveness only matters if the remaining power is no longer sufficient to penetrate what it manages to hit. In the case of the Stryker, from what I've seen the round still has enough ooomph to penetrate even when considering deformation of the warhead or standoff range.

The best hope the slat armor offers is defeating the older rounds which were less reliable or likely to perform to theoretical specs. The newer rounds, especially those tandem warehead rounds, are a different matter. The tandem round, in particular, is designed to get through standoff armor.

Steve

[Pandur]

thanks for the info steve! now that i know that, i have to say that there must be something wrong than.

as you can see in the original post, the slat armor is pretty effective versus nearly any HEAT based warhed right now. it seems no matter if its a "old" HEAT, "normal" HEAT or T-HEAT.

[Battlefront.com]

Pandur, how do you know this? Strykers seem to blow up with great frequency due to RPG hits.

Steve

[Pandur]

hehe, i "know" that becouse the times i tried to destroy one with RPG´s or SPG-9 technicals they ate up a "considerable" amount of the projectiles and where "invincible" in their own way, becouse the FEW wich managed to hit didnt do anything. also you have to consider they shoot back.

than, when i play US side i cant remember when i lost a stryker the last time to a RPG team. the few hits they catch are totaly ate by the slat or fail to "hurt" if not.

when i play RED on BLUE i calcualte "at least" 2 RPG teams, wich should shoot at the same time to destroy 1 stryker, in theory their both shot up or out of HEATs befor or after that. now when we think about, most maps dont have more than 3-5 RPG teams around in total. but "plenty" of vehicles on the other side.

so you are "without" chance to destroy a stryker when you look at it realistically, maybe one

your chances get better if the US is controled by AI, or by a reckless player wich moves his strykers into the wrong place rather often.

if that isnt the case you will loose RPG teams becouse they happylie attack infantry(cover armor arc, please ) wich probes any position befor vehicles come into play there.

however, that meight be somewhat subjective. i guess the US player sees that different again. they surely loose strkyers "frequently" but i dont know how they do it

[the Fighting Seabee]

RPG's take out my strykers with the first shot all the time. Lucky shots I guess.

In Iraq, a Marine was sitting in the back of a truck. An RPG nailed him right on the helmet. It bouced off harmlessly (except that it knocked him out and gave him a headache). Another guy (a seabee) was hit in the legs with one. It broke both of is legs and exploded on the wall behind him.

It just shows you that luck has a lot to do with it. Sometimes the warhead hits at a weird angle and bounces off, sometimes it hits dead on as designed. Just luck.

The one main complaint I have with RPG's in cmsf is that they are extremely accurate. RPG's tend to spiral off a lot and sometimes only fly 10 feet. Even when using a scope rather than iron sights, they are still fairly inaccurate. We had AT-4's and were always taught that they were way more accurate than RPG's or older American unguided rockets (and that's with iron sights).

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7f2_1198045257

Anyways, I'm no expert. Just my opinion.

[ May 11, 2008, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: the Fighting Seabee ]

[Flanker15]

Yep Slat armor eats my RPGs all the time too. Much different than earlier version where it didn't seem to work. I now try to elevate my RPGs when engaging strykers to shoot over the slats. I've also had slat armor eat a RPG-29 and a AT-3,4,6 and lots of T-Heat warheads from RPGs BMPs and SPGs.

[ May 11, 2008, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Flanker15 ]

[Pandur]

The one main complaint I have with RPG's in cmsf is that they are extremely accurate.

well, i on the receiving end see em flying past my vehicles more often than not.

i guess you play in RT , and i guess you dont see the X rpg´s wich go somewhere into the country side befor one hits.

iam happy they gained slightly accuracy in 1.08. it was redicioulous befor. you couldnt even area fire a barn @30 meters

i feel RPG´s are fine now, seen from the useing and receiving end. you occasionally hit when you need to and you get hit from time to time if you dont want to. thats good.

and yes, AT4´s are more accurate in the game too. i see them hit vehicles more than regulary with their first AT4 they launch, and its a "good as" sure knock out too. they work as advidsered.

I've also had slat armor eat a RPG-29 and a AT-3,4,6 and lots of T-Heat warheads from RPGs BMPs and SPGs.

yea, i hope that will be tuned down a bit, i guess steve took a note after seeing that topic. he even said that slat has "more or less" nothing to offer against modern T-HEATs and non obsolete RPG rounds. let alone ATGM´s and the such.

[Battlefront.com]

Just updating you guys on this... Charles found a problem that caused too much of the HEAT round's penetrating power to be lost due to slat and skirt armor. There should be an effect, but a bug was causing it to be more than it ought to have been. This is why you guys noticed a behavioral change with slat armor sometime recently. This will be fixed with the next patch.

Ironically, Charles had found the bug while tweaking something else and before I made him aware of this thread. We tend to only know about fixes he makes if someone has opened a bug report already. It's nice to know that sometimes Charles fixes things without being asked

Steve

[Pandur]

Just updating you guys on this... Charles found a problem that caused too much of the HEAT round's penetrating power to be lost due to slat and skirt armor. There should be an effect, but a bug was causing it to be more than it ought to have been. This is why you guys noticed a behavioral change with slat armor sometime recently. This will be fixed with the next patch.

Ironically, Charles had found the bug while tweaking something else and before I made him aware of this thread. We tend to only know about fixes he makes if someone has opened a bug report already. It's nice to know that sometimes Charles fixes things without being asked

HEY! great news!

[Dragon67]

Originally posted by Secondbrooks:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Adam1:

Interesting, I thought it worked by detonating the RPG too far from the hull for the explosive jet to matter. If it does detonate on the cage, will it harm the vehicle? (irl)

I've heard that half of penetrating power from PG-7 is cut during distance it flies from cage to armor (nothing official however). I figure that it goes thru, but effects after armor penetration are reduced quite a much. </font>