Thomm Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Uhhhh oh, that last one is bad, yet kind of typical! One thing that could work in MOUT is that the squad remembers the action points it passed on its way and simply dashes back until it finds one that provides cover. That would perhaps be the safest kind of reaction. It would also work in uneven terrain, I guess. To pin it down, the current logic seems to favor good local cover over breaking of LOS, but staying in the open. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Uhhhh oh, that last one is bad, yet kind of typical! One thing that could work in MOUT is that the squad remembers the action points it passed on its way and simply dashes back until it finds one that provides cover. That would perhaps be the safest kind of reaction. It would also work in uneven terrain, I guess. To pin it down, the current logic seems to favor good local cover over breaking of LOS, but staying in the open. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Long distance in the open - get down. get to cover. Medium distance - return fire. get to cover. Short distance - dash to cover. return fire. Very often, the fire part is actually the best response. Also, "cover" means "free of enemy", not just "any terrain". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Long distance in the open - get down. get to cover. Medium distance - return fire. get to cover. Short distance - dash to cover. return fire. Very often, the fire part is actually the best response. Also, "cover" means "free of enemy", not just "any terrain". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Long distance in the open - get down. get to cover. Medium distance - return fire. get to cover. Short distance - dash to cover. return fire. Very often, the fire part is actually the best response. Also, "cover" means "free of enemy", not just "any terrain". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 i dont know, but i guess if "slow" would also be a bit "sneaky" instead of just slow. it would work better as you would partly loose sight to the crawling coulum. at least on 250m+ depending on ground type. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 i dont know, but i guess if "slow" would also be a bit "sneaky" instead of just slow. it would work better as you would partly loose sight to the crawling coulum. at least on 250m+ depending on ground type. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 i dont know, but i guess if "slow" would also be a bit "sneaky" instead of just slow. it would work better as you would partly loose sight to the crawling coulum. at least on 250m+ depending on ground type. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted May 21, 2008 Author Share Posted May 21, 2008 Originally posted by Pandur: i dont know, but i guess if "slow" would also be a bit "sneaky" instead of just slow. it would work better as you would partly loose sight to the crawling coulum. at least on 250m+ depending on ground type. Exactly. It does work at 200+ yards, but distances shorter than that just get them killed. That's why they need to do something other than Slow. Maybe Assault or something, so some of them start suppressing the enemy while the others dash to cover, and then vice versa? -FMB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted May 21, 2008 Author Share Posted May 21, 2008 Originally posted by Pandur: i dont know, but i guess if "slow" would also be a bit "sneaky" instead of just slow. it would work better as you would partly loose sight to the crawling coulum. at least on 250m+ depending on ground type. Exactly. It does work at 200+ yards, but distances shorter than that just get them killed. That's why they need to do something other than Slow. Maybe Assault or something, so some of them start suppressing the enemy while the others dash to cover, and then vice versa? -FMB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted May 21, 2008 Author Share Posted May 21, 2008 Originally posted by Pandur: i dont know, but i guess if "slow" would also be a bit "sneaky" instead of just slow. it would work better as you would partly loose sight to the crawling coulum. at least on 250m+ depending on ground type. Exactly. It does work at 200+ yards, but distances shorter than that just get them killed. That's why they need to do something other than Slow. Maybe Assault or something, so some of them start suppressing the enemy while the others dash to cover, and then vice versa? -FMB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy129 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Another thing that sort of goes hand in hand with this is vehicles automatically popping smoke and reversing like mad men as soon as they see a tank, no matter how far away. If they're a fancy recon vehicle with good observation equipment and can spot a tank a long way off, I'd rather they found cover or stayed in position instead of killing their own LOS and letting the tank see a big giant white smoke cloud to let him know enemies are present. It's also annoying when I tell them to get to a certain spot to observe fires on the enemy tanks, who seem to not be able to see them, but as soon as they get in position they absolutely refuse to stay put and immediately pop smoke and reverse. Not only that, but they will keep doing it as long as the tank is in view, so I have a whole stryker platoon scattered everywhere because they refuse to follow orders and stay put. This also causes them to abandon their dismounted infantry when I give them javelins and tell them to get out and shoot an enemy tank. Crispy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy129 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Another thing that sort of goes hand in hand with this is vehicles automatically popping smoke and reversing like mad men as soon as they see a tank, no matter how far away. If they're a fancy recon vehicle with good observation equipment and can spot a tank a long way off, I'd rather they found cover or stayed in position instead of killing their own LOS and letting the tank see a big giant white smoke cloud to let him know enemies are present. It's also annoying when I tell them to get to a certain spot to observe fires on the enemy tanks, who seem to not be able to see them, but as soon as they get in position they absolutely refuse to stay put and immediately pop smoke and reverse. Not only that, but they will keep doing it as long as the tank is in view, so I have a whole stryker platoon scattered everywhere because they refuse to follow orders and stay put. This also causes them to abandon their dismounted infantry when I give them javelins and tell them to get out and shoot an enemy tank. Crispy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy129 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Another thing that sort of goes hand in hand with this is vehicles automatically popping smoke and reversing like mad men as soon as they see a tank, no matter how far away. If they're a fancy recon vehicle with good observation equipment and can spot a tank a long way off, I'd rather they found cover or stayed in position instead of killing their own LOS and letting the tank see a big giant white smoke cloud to let him know enemies are present. It's also annoying when I tell them to get to a certain spot to observe fires on the enemy tanks, who seem to not be able to see them, but as soon as they get in position they absolutely refuse to stay put and immediately pop smoke and reverse. Not only that, but they will keep doing it as long as the tank is in view, so I have a whole stryker platoon scattered everywhere because they refuse to follow orders and stay put. This also causes them to abandon their dismounted infantry when I give them javelins and tell them to get out and shoot an enemy tank. Crispy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Operations Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Squads are supposed to have a "bug-out" mode, I think -- it was added a while back. I've never seen it used more than a few times -- a pinned squad will suddenly give itself fast movement orders to the nearest piece of cover. Even when this does happen, though, the squad doesn't move (presumably because they're pinned). So, in practice, they never actually run for it. If this is realistic -- I wouldn't know -- then I suppose I could accept it (grudgingly). But otherwise, I'd have to agree that this is more significant than a lot of other things (placeable trenches included). I've tended to hope that it's still "on the list" in some regard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Operations Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Squads are supposed to have a "bug-out" mode, I think -- it was added a while back. I've never seen it used more than a few times -- a pinned squad will suddenly give itself fast movement orders to the nearest piece of cover. Even when this does happen, though, the squad doesn't move (presumably because they're pinned). So, in practice, they never actually run for it. If this is realistic -- I wouldn't know -- then I suppose I could accept it (grudgingly). But otherwise, I'd have to agree that this is more significant than a lot of other things (placeable trenches included). I've tended to hope that it's still "on the list" in some regard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Operations Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Squads are supposed to have a "bug-out" mode, I think -- it was added a while back. I've never seen it used more than a few times -- a pinned squad will suddenly give itself fast movement orders to the nearest piece of cover. Even when this does happen, though, the squad doesn't move (presumably because they're pinned). So, in practice, they never actually run for it. If this is realistic -- I wouldn't know -- then I suppose I could accept it (grudgingly). But otherwise, I'd have to agree that this is more significant than a lot of other things (placeable trenches included). I've tended to hope that it's still "on the list" in some regard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Originally posted by Peach Operations: I've tended to hope that it's still "on the list" in some regard. It is, do not worry. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Originally posted by Peach Operations: I've tended to hope that it's still "on the list" in some regard. It is, do not worry. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Originally posted by Peach Operations: I've tended to hope that it's still "on the list" in some regard. It is, do not worry. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'm curious to hear about this as well. In CMx1 it was an issue and now it is again. In CMx1 you would have broken and routed squads getting up and sometimes even running toward enemy units. Is it modern weaponry that is the cause of what we're seeing? As in "if you get caught in the open you're toast...period". The TAC AI really has 2 choices. Hug the ground and hope you can crawl to safety. Or get up and make a run for it and hope you make it. Either one could be a death sentence. What makes it difficult for me is once your unit is pinned you can't make the decision yourself because full control of the unit is usually taken away because of the pinned status. Is one really better than another (not a rhetorical question)? I'd be very interested to hear from any Afgan/Iraq vets that might have some first or second hand stories about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'm curious to hear about this as well. In CMx1 it was an issue and now it is again. In CMx1 you would have broken and routed squads getting up and sometimes even running toward enemy units. Is it modern weaponry that is the cause of what we're seeing? As in "if you get caught in the open you're toast...period". The TAC AI really has 2 choices. Hug the ground and hope you can crawl to safety. Or get up and make a run for it and hope you make it. Either one could be a death sentence. What makes it difficult for me is once your unit is pinned you can't make the decision yourself because full control of the unit is usually taken away because of the pinned status. Is one really better than another (not a rhetorical question)? I'd be very interested to hear from any Afgan/Iraq vets that might have some first or second hand stories about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'm curious to hear about this as well. In CMx1 it was an issue and now it is again. In CMx1 you would have broken and routed squads getting up and sometimes even running toward enemy units. Is it modern weaponry that is the cause of what we're seeing? As in "if you get caught in the open you're toast...period". The TAC AI really has 2 choices. Hug the ground and hope you can crawl to safety. Or get up and make a run for it and hope you make it. Either one could be a death sentence. What makes it difficult for me is once your unit is pinned you can't make the decision yourself because full control of the unit is usually taken away because of the pinned status. Is one really better than another (not a rhetorical question)? I'd be very interested to hear from any Afgan/Iraq vets that might have some first or second hand stories about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Fighting Seabee Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I was taught, and practiced often, the way to react during an ambush. Far ambush: > 50 ft. Response: Keep moving if in convoy, take cover and return fire if boots are on the ground. Near ambush: < 50 ft. Response: Immediately and without hesitation, get out of the kill zone by charging the enemy. Charging means you let out your war cry, shoot on fully automatic, throw grenades, bite, kick, stab, rip out eyes, and overrun the attackers. It may sound crazy, but it's you and your men's best shot at survival. Maybe if a veteran or better squad gets pinned by an enemy within two 8 meter squares, they charge. That would be interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Fighting Seabee Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I was taught, and practiced often, the way to react during an ambush. Far ambush: > 50 ft. Response: Keep moving if in convoy, take cover and return fire if boots are on the ground. Near ambush: < 50 ft. Response: Immediately and without hesitation, get out of the kill zone by charging the enemy. Charging means you let out your war cry, shoot on fully automatic, throw grenades, bite, kick, stab, rip out eyes, and overrun the attackers. It may sound crazy, but it's you and your men's best shot at survival. Maybe if a veteran or better squad gets pinned by an enemy within two 8 meter squares, they charge. That would be interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.