Some Musings on Basic Strategy

[Peterk]

Was just thinking about some patterns of play I've settled into since I've started playing the game.

Thought I'd toss them out for debate, additions and to help people starting out.

Some basic strategy musings for the demo game...

1. Having more cards than the opponent is good. Very good.

2. You don't have to counter everything. The only hits that really count are the ones that make you smoke and the ones that shoot you out of the sky.

Letting some small hits and maneuvering advantages go by is one of the few ways to get more cards than the opponent early on.

Save the Barrel Rolls, Tight Turns and especially Ace Pilot for stuff that hurts.

3. To take advantage of Scissors at the beginning of your next turn you might have to let yourself be disadvantaged in the current turn.

4.When situation is neutral, try to have 4 maneuvering type cards and 2 damage type cards. When you're on the other guy's tail, try to have

5 maneuver cards and 1 kill/to-smoke damage card at the end of your turn.

5. Using wingmen get free hits on enemy leader and especially drain his cards is good. It's dicey though. Distribution of wingmen attack cards on first 2 turns often decide who gets the advantage in game.

6. Diving is a better way to escape from trouble than climbing.

Climbing is usually only good when you are at Very Low and have nowehere left to dive

7. If your opponent is aggressive try to stay 2 levels above him. He will climb one and fail to reach you and then you can dive onto him with a better and bigger deck.

8. Main advantage of diving is that it gets you away from the enemy wingman attack essentially cutting opponent's offense in half. If you're trying to stay alive late in a drawn game dive constantly.

Use Vertical Roll - Dive at the end of your attack to avoid wingman attack on next enemy's move.

9. When deciding whether to follow in an altitude change, only follow if you currently have a hand which can kill or make opponent smoke, if he is not, on the next turn.

Don't follow for a meaningless 1:1 shot which accomplishes nothing. Even if you are on his tail.

10. Consider starting at High altitude. Most people are at medium at beginning. You may be able to pounce on an already damaged enemy while staying immune yourself in turn 1 in 2v2.

11. Consider starting at Very Low to get a huge hand advantage. Most people are at Medium, by the time you climb to there you can arrange to have a hand that is almost guaranteed to get on your target's tail.

12. Don't start at Low. If you don't get to move first and opponent is at Medium he will dive onto you.

13. When discarding, get rid of small hit cards rather than maneuver cards unless that small hit card is enough to kill or make your opponent go to smoking on next turn.

[ August 02, 2005, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Peterk ]

[Moon]

1. Having more cards than the opponent is good. Very good.

Yup. This simulates the need for airspeed when you're in a dogfight. That's a really neat aspect of the game system - as simple as it is, it does follow realistic principles of air to air combat.

2. You don't have to counter everything. The only hits that really count are the ones that make you smoke and the ones that shoot you out of the sky.

Indeed. Realising this is the first step from n00b to experienced Knowing what cards to play and what to keep is essential. Takes experience, intuition and a feel for who you're up against. The really neat thing is that defensive maneuvers are also needed when you're attacking to counter the other guy's defense, so you're always at a trade off between what to do now vs what to do later. Again, just like in real air to air combat (not that I'd know about this first hand of course, just from reading and talking to pilots), you need to keep thinking ahead.

Save the Barrel Rolls, Tight Turns and especially Ace Pilot for stuff that hurts.

Here's another tip: one Barrel Roll is not nearly as strong as two Barrel Rolls. Try to keep cards that give you pairs. 3 Barrel Rolls are as strong as an Ace Pilot card essentially. Think about it!

3. To take advantage of Scissors at the beginning of your next turn you might have to let yourself be disadvantaged in the current turn.

Yup, especially good tactic for "agile" planes like the Japanese zero. Let him get close, then outmaneuver him.

5. Using wingmen get free hits on enemy leader and especially drain his cards is good. It's dicey though. Distribution of wingmen attack cards on first 2 turns often decide who gets the advantage in game.

This also depends on your leader's cards. When your leader has a few good strong attack cards but little in maneuvers (so he cannot use them against the enemy wingman due to lack of burst), then having your wingman attack the leader is good. It might give you a few extra maneuvers and drain the other guys hand.

6. Diving is a better way to escape from trouble than climbing.

Depends - among other things - on how many cards you have vs. what your opponent has. When you dive you get more cards, but so does the enemy when he follows you. I like to climb when I have more cards than the opponent. I like to dive when I have decent defensive cards with at least a maneuver or scissors card...

9. When deciding whether to follow in an altitude change, only follow if you currently have a hand which can kill or make opponent smoke, if he is not, on the next turn.

There is a greater truth hidden within this one Noob's often fly too aggressively, trying to stay on the other guy's tail at all cost, and quickly find themselves out of airspeed (cards). Learning how to "play the cards" is the second step from noob to experienced player, i.e. knowing when to press an attack for the kill, and when to let go, gain airspeed, reposition etc.

10. Consider starting at High altitude. Most people are at medium at beginning.

LOL, that's only because most are new. Soon you'll see people starting all over the place. You'll find me at any altitude at any time... High and low each have their benefits and disadvantages. Generally high is better than low, though.

Martin

[Cull]

Good to see my prediction of a strategy guide developing fairly quickly coming true

These are useful. On the last point (altitude), my experience has been thus:

I've flown the 109s almost exclusively in my 40 or so missions, and for no reason in particular I've found myself usually starting at "high". I guess I figure the odds of somebody starting above me are less, and if they're below, well...that's usually a good thing.

One particularly memorable mission I had decided to experiment with starting at "very low" and got immediately jumped by two Spitfires from "low". My leader went down on turn 1 :eek: The wingman somehow managed to bob and weave for some four or five turns before getting splashed as well. I'm pretty sure he never even got a shot off.

Just random bad luck, but made me realize what a gamble it was to start at treetop level with a more vulnerable crate!

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I'm currently being succesful in 2v2 by using VH or H. While everyone goes scrapping at medium I'm sitting pretty waiting for their cards to run out. Then I swoop in and knock them out of the sky. Great fun if a bit heartless towards my fellow pilot. He usually gets beat up some before I join the fray. But it is a winning statagy, no need to blow cards on defense by mixing it up in a furbal so the tables turn quickly when all my cards are used for lethal attacks while their defense cards are lowered.

[Kozure]

Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

I'm currently being succesful in 2v2 by using VH or H. While everyone goes scrapping at medium I'm sitting pretty waiting for their cards to run out. Then I swoop in and knock them out of the sky. Great fun if a bit heartless towards my fellow pilot. He usually gets beat up some before I join the fray. But it is a winning statagy, no need to blow cards on defense by mixing it up in a furbal so the tables turn quickly when all my cards are used for lethal attacks while their defense cards are lowered.

Heh, and so it was "vulching" and "boom and zoom" flying reared their ugly heads in DiF. (not that they're not valid strategies, or even ahistorical, just that they can be very NOT fun.)

Actually, one of the main things I've noticed people who play the card game for the first time is to fail to use altitude changes as part of their strategy. I'm sure the same will hold true for newbies in the computer version.

[ August 04, 2005, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Kozure ]

[Tomb]

Ohhh kozure you should know better

the more practised are expert at letting the "vulchers" come howling on down from on high, it gives them confidence,ussualy misplaced

watch out for that DanVerssen bloke, he bimbles along like he hasn't a care in the world.

you might well get hold of the tigers tail...but he can still turn round and bite your head off, reflect on that when your floating down in your 'chute

In DiF there is more than one way to shoot the tiger...or indeed get bitten by it.

[Niwotian60]

Some tips I would add

</font>

• Know your pilots skills and those of your teammate and enemies. Draw cards, starting cards, check six, distract wingman, power dive, shake 'em off, etc. can make a seemingly easy target a very nasty opponent.</font>
• Know the planes. American planes are tough; Zeroes are agile. Spitfires balance the two.</font>
• Support your teammate. I see too many 2v2 battles become 2 @ 1v1. Forget who is shooting at you - revenge comes with winning. Support your teammate and gang up on a target.</font>
• Be very careful killing a leader before his wingman, especially if the wingman isnt' smoking. A healthy wingman gets a full hand of 6 cards regardless of altitude (very nasty at high+ when you just drained your own hand). Even a smoking wingman gets 4 cards.</font>
• When in doubt, change altitude. If nothing else, it can keep you from eating enemy wingmen flak. It also forces your opponent to throw away some of his/her cards or worry about cards you might have drawn. Even if you have good cards that can't immediately do damage, it may sucker your opponent into thinking you have nothing.</font>
• Your opponent's teammate can't shoot at your leader plane if it is disadvantaged or tailed. Sometimes the safest position is disadvantaged - and if you have a wingman you can dive/climb and try to split up your opponent's altitudes.</font>
• Similarly, your teammate can't shoot at a plane that you are tailing or have advantaged. If you can't do damage, consider letting the enemy maneuver back to neutral or even changing altitude to reset the enemy position so that your teammate can shoot.</font>
• Talk to your teammate! WWII era planes had radios and were in constant communication with each other. If you need help, can't maneuver, etc it may be better to say it when he can help rather than have him learn it by watching you eat 20mm rounds.</font>
• Watch the turn counter. The last turn or two of the game you should figure out if you have a legitimate opportunity to kill or not. If not, start to think about survival. Remember that the guys in seats #3 and 4 don't have much to lose by dumping every card in their hand to try to bring you down. Better to live to fight another day ....
  (note to developers: Why use fixed # of turns? Perhaps a future enhancement might be that there is an x% chance of a game ending at the end of every full turn starting on turn #y. This would help prevent some gamey mechanics)</font>
• Use discard effectively. You can draw as many cards as you have horsepower, up to your performance limit. When in doubt, click on yellow cards to turn them red and see if a new draw slot opens up. If it does, then discarding that card buys you another draw. If not, just click on it again to turn it yellow.</font>
• It is a game of attrition. Attacking wingmen simply because they only have two cards isn't always the best strategy. Unless you are pretty sure you can do meaningful damage, you are probably better off using your cards against an enemy leader in an attempt to gain advantage and reduce his cards. This doesn't make much difference in one turn, but over two or three it really adds up, especially after he is smoking and/or at higher altitudes (both reduce horsepower). Remember, you get to redraw at the end of your turn and he is stuck with the cards in his hand until the end of his turn.</font>
• Beware the enemy wingman that draws 2:D/Ace Pilot on you ....</font>

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

Bump.

This thread is worth stickying

[demoss]

>It is a game of attrition. Attacking wingmen simply because they only have two cards isn't always the best strategy. Unless you are pretty sure you can do meaningful damage, you are probably better off using your cards against an enemy leader in an attempt to gain advantage and reduce his cards. This doesn't make much difference in one turn, but over two or three it really adds up, especially after he is smoking and/or at higher altitudes (both reduce horsepower). Remember, you get to redraw at the end of your turn and he is stuck with the cards in his hand until the end of his turn.

Though true, attacking wingmen DOES reduce the effect of the wingman's revenge effect. With the right cards (such as an excess of Maneuvering plus some IMS, and few counters) it's clearly the way to go. On th other hand - in the demo at least - I rarely bother with it against those darn American P-40Ns. Why, oh why, did they get a plane like that? An early P-38 would have been fairer and more interesting to boot.

[demoss]

Oh, one other thing - if you're gearing your hand toward OFFENSE, sometimes one barrel roll and one tight turn is better than two of either. That way you can respond to either one. Not always, but sometimes. Especially true when your opponent is low on cards.

[Pawlock]

Although I like attacking wingmen,I generally dont bother with them if they have check 6 skills.

Wingmen, unlike leaders do not suffer attrition on the same level. Also defence seems last to suffer if at all with damage caused and alt changes. So in essence if you attack a check 6'd wingmen he will mostly be drawing 3 cards per series of attacks.

Thing is, as a targetted wingman I know as a general rule I dont need to save cards unless I suspect a big Hitter on the next card.

Lastly, my rule of thumb for attacking wingies is, dont bother unless you can kill or seriously smoke him in 1 go.

[Moon]

People's perception and strategy of what to do or not with wingmen will change when you get the full version. Different strategies apply on the various levels and even with different aircraft actually!

[Rastakyle]

Originally posted by Pawlock:

Although I like attacking wingmen,I generally dont bother with them if they have check 6 skills.

Wingmen, unlike leaders do not suffer attrition on the same level. Also defence seems last to suffer if at all with damage caused and alt changes. So in essence if you attack a check 6'd wingmen he will mostly be drawing 3 cards per series of attacks.

Thing is, as a targetted wingman I know as a general rule I dont need to save cards unless I suspect a big Hitter on the next card.

Lastly, my rule of thumb for attacking wingies is, dont bother unless you can kill or seriously smoke him in 1 go.

I've been learning alot flying against you guys.

One dogfight I had recently my wingman was smoking after one turn. My leader kept getting poor draws and my wingman was no help at all because he only drew one card per turn. So I think there can be value in attacking the wingman. If nothing else to disable him.

And check six does mean you need some good cards to seriously damage him right off the bat.

[Rastakyle]

Originally posted by Moon:

People's perception and strategy of what to do or not with wingmen will change when you get the full version. Different strategies apply on the various levels and even with different aircraft actually!

And when exactly will this happen Moon? (LOL, I preordered and can't wait).

Too bad we can't get a beta version like with Gal Civ when we preorder. I love that model.

Seriously though, is it really 4-6 weeks before you start shipping?

[Pawlock]

Originally posted by Rastakyle(rastak):

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pawlock:

Although I like attacking wingmen,I generally dont bother with them if they have check 6 skills.

Wingmen, unlike leaders do not suffer attrition on the same level. Also defence seems last to suffer if at all with damage caused and alt changes. So in essence if you attack a check 6'd wingmen he will mostly be drawing 3 cards per series of attacks.

Thing is, as a targetted wingman I know as a general rule I dont need to save cards unless I suspect a big Hitter on the next card.

Lastly, my rule of thumb for attacking wingies is, dont bother unless you can kill or seriously smoke him in 1 go.

I've been learning alot flying against you guys.

One dogfight I had recently my wingman was smoking after one turn. My leader kept getting poor draws and my wingman was no help at all because he only drew one card per turn. So I think there can be value in attacking the wingman. If nothing else to disable him.

And check six does mean you need some good cards to seriously damage him right off the bat. </font>

[Pawlock]

Originally posted by Moon:

People's perception and strategy of what to do or not with wingmen will change when you get the full version. Different strategies apply on the various levels and even with different aircraft actually!

Obviously not having played the full game Im not in the know, but I can see the xp restrictions certainly limit the available strategies atm.

A good example of this would be perhaps leaders who chose the higher end skills unsupported by other skills because cannot get more xp.

Couple of my leaders have gained marksmen, I imagine in full game a very powerfull skill, but without any complimentary skill make them extremly vulnerable and easy targets.

[Rastakyle]

Originally posted by Pawlock:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rastakyle(rastak):

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pawlock:

Although I like attacking wingmen,I generally dont bother with them if they have check 6 skills.

Wingmen, unlike leaders do not suffer attrition on the same level. Also defence seems last to suffer if at all with damage caused and alt changes. So in essence if you attack a check 6'd wingmen he will mostly be drawing 3 cards per series of attacks.

Thing is, as a targetted wingman I know as a general rule I dont need to save cards unless I suspect a big Hitter on the next card.

Lastly, my rule of thumb for attacking wingies is, dont bother unless you can kill or seriously smoke him in 1 go.

I've been learning alot flying against you guys.

One dogfight I had recently my wingman was smoking after one turn. My leader kept getting poor draws and my wingman was no help at all because he only drew one card per turn. So I think there can be value in attacking the wingman. If nothing else to disable him.

And check six does mean you need some good cards to seriously damage him right off the bat. </font>

[Guest Mike]

What is the advantage of height?

As far as I can see you can "boom and zoom" if you have a vertical roll - but you can do that from lower too, in reverse.

Coming up from low you choose which cards to discard so you know exactly what you are left with.

Dropping from higher you have fewer cards to start with from which to make your attack worthwhile. You get the same number of cards when you get there, but some of them are random additions.

[Kiith]

The main advantage of height seems to be to determine who goes first, as the higher player always has the first turn.

In your example you’d have to discard a card to climb (or have the skill to nullify that) while if you’re diving you’re gaining 1 card (2 with the skill). So if you max hand size is 6 climbing to attack will give you 5-6 cards while diving to attack will give you 7-8 cards.

[Pawlock]

Originally posted by Mike:

What is the advantage of height?

As far as I can see you can "boom and zoom" if you have a vertical roll - but you can do that from lower too, in reverse.

Coming up from low you choose which cards to discard so you know exactly what you are left with.

Dropping from higher you have fewer cards to start with from which to make your attack worthwhile. You get the same number of cards when you get there, but some of them are random additions.

More differences that alt make which are not immediatly apparent until you played a while.

HP - is increased or reduced depending wether low or high

Defence is also reduced at highter alt's.

[Liebchen]

Originally posted by Kiith:

So if you max hand size is 6 climbing to attack will give you 5-6 cards while diving to attack will give you 7-8 cards.

Except if you start the game at high, in which case you start with fewer cards. So you'd end up with 5-6 cards.

[demoss]

That's why you buy Power Dive.

[Guest Mike]

Thanks for the tips - I tried it last nigth and it does seem to woork that yo end up with more cards starting high and diving, despite the random nature of the additions