AAR, Rambo Axis vs Jollyguy, Ladder Game

[Jollyguy]

This one is different in that Rambo is perfecting his minimum in Poland then hit the west early strategy. What he did was hit the Poles with just enough to take Warsaw, and then DOW’ed Benelux quickly and into France with mainly corps. The Poles took two more turns to surrender, at which time I had them retreating west and forming a wall of Allied zones-of-control so he couldn’t operate units west. Poland surrendered in December. The luck element is that he got extended fall and then short winter weather, so it’s worked well for him in France, Paris will fall at the end of April, while Denmark has not been DOW’ed yet.

In the Med I’ve disabled Tobruk and its port, using the French navy and my bomber; What I did was induce an early Italian entry by amphib’ing two French corps. One corp took an unoccupied Tripoli, the other landed and hit an Italian cruiser in port at Tobruk. I then sent the French navy to the Italian boot and hit his 5 strength sub to little effect.

That's where it stands for now.

Bob

[Jollyguy]

An update on this game. Shortly after France fell Rambo hit Spain, which held on for quite awhile, I think six turns.

At the same time we had a naval battle around Brest that cost me two carriers, and in which I counted 5 advanced subs. After that battle I evacuated Brest for safer shores.

Then he hit Norway, and they survived two armies landing. I goofed and didn’t transport a corp to a northern city, and then he op’ed units up there, including an army, which cost him something. I don’t think I’ve seen Norwegian partisans, so he must still have Norway garrisoned.

Then he took Gibraltar, while slowing attriting Malta, which he eventually took…with the help of a rocket! In the meantime no big Egypt battle like last time, so I took Tobruk.

However, because he took Spain early, only one of his minors, Bulgaria, joined, with Rumania and Hungary stuck. Turn after turn after turn passed and the other two minors didn’t join, so he finally used chits to get Rumania in. Since they were landlocked I hit Rumania instead of Finland, but I got caught in mud and now winter, demonstrating how weather can so greatly effect things. I didn’t isolate Rumania fully and he op’ed in his Bulgarian units, probably not wanting to commit a valuable German HQ, as I have a fairly large contingent in the area, and I now have Rumania blockaded, but who knows for how long.

I then hit Syria and took it with the help of my English tank, pissing off the Iraqi’s and Iranians, but they’re always pissed off, even to this day, so what’s new?

So that’s where we stand. US is in the mid 60s readiness and finally moving up, as it’s February , and I still hold England and Egypt. As far as I can see Rambo is shy on land units, as not having Rumania and Hungary all those turns cost him mpps, plus investing in subs.

Bob

[Blashy]

Romania and Bulgaria are also producing at less capacity.

[hellraiser]

hitting spain prior to HU/RO joining is not a good ideea.

Best Axis start so far (from my experience) is to get busy with poland/lc/france while pressing Spain (5 diplo chits) - UK simply cannot just overlook the spanish issue (gibraltar+loads of spanish troops/navy) - they need to counter with chits. With Spain Axis, it is way easier for germans to capture NAfrica/Mid East due to Gibraltar supply disruption effect.

Hitting anything else than LC/Denmark will not serve Axis anything, really. Minor collecting works differently in SC2 than in SC1 - you get them minors after Russia/USA are in.

Norway, to me, appears to be more costly than anything - you need to keep 3 corps at least to defend it, plus you have to take constant care of the mine/city nearby as allies can raid it and interrupt the ore convoy. The mpp gains vs cost needed to defend Norway are too low for it to be of a real use pre Barbarossa.

If axis dream about a complete skando domination, it can be done - with norway and sweden land linked via Finland, the skando resources go up to 8 - not bad at all. But again it should be done after Barbarossa.

Ok, I know Rambo goes for fun games so, from this point of view, any strategy might be interesting and funny. But for competitive play, this minor collecting strategy pre-Barbarossa is just suboptimal. It is the way the game works, nothing special

Going for subs and rockets is possible in SC2 as an alternative strategy (again, obviously suboptimal but funny nonetheless) because germans don't need many troops for Barbarossa - Russia is piss poor in 41 and can only do so much.

[Colin I]

Its hard to tell from the account, but it seems to me Rambo has a viable strategy - or at least I hope he has. Perhaps the strategy is more aggressive naval than minor collecting per se? The advanced wolfpack downing two carriers, loss of Gibralter with Axis ability to redeploy beteween Atlantic and Med, and loss of Malta all work together to seriously limit the UK and the US is going to have problems too.

So, I'm not familiar with SC2 as others, but arguing historically rather than game-wise I think that the Allies should be in serious trouble if the lose the seas and there seems the potential for this to happen here. I understand attacking minors triggers USSR/USA but would have thought there were serious compensations to this position.

I'm quite curious about when and where the Italian fleet will act if they haven't knackered themselves at Malta.

[jon_j_rambo]

Actually, if you know me......After I beat an opponent, I continue to try whackier strategies until they beat me....I like giving a sucker a even chance, lol

My invasion of Spain before minors & didn't bother with VF either was whacked. BUT, I got bad luck! I had 4 chits in Romania forever, 1 chit Bulgaria!

[Jollyguy]

Never give a sucker an even break! Was that good ol’ P.T. Barnum, or W.C. Fields, I can’t remember.

Anyway, the reason I like playing John and other good players is simply because you learn more and learn it faster. I’m posting these AAR’s regardless of whether I win, and trying to do it in a matter-of-fact fashion, and for the good of other SC 2 players. It should take months to figure out this game and dig deep into its nuances, then a patch will come along, and that will take time. So in the meantime I’ll post. I also read all AAR’s posted, where I pick up numerous tidbits along the way.

And yes, I do believe John has a viable strategy. We have a new game platform here and he is just trying things out, something he’s good at. As to the carriers I lost. IMO they are almost useless in SC 2. In SC 1 they were potential monsters, but IMO in SC 2 they are basically eunuchs. England just cannot afford to upgrade them and pay for them to get experience like in SC 1. I would trade each of my carriers for a cruiser straight up, as cruisers with ASW in SC 2 are much better at fighting subs.

In SC 2 you have two new kids on the block, tanks and subs. John is experimenting with putting both to good use.

Bob

[hellraiser]

Ref. carriers - frankly I like the way they are in SC2 - they can help spot things, soften up targets and even hit quite well surface vessels/subs. UK carriers were no way near the japanese/US ones during ww2 so I think they are quite well represented in the game. SC1 had those super carriers bugged but basically one of the few things that helped allies have chances at winning the game.

The damage done back to them by land units is questionable though.

[janbo]

Originally posted by hellraiser:

The damage done back to them by land units is questionable though.

I agree. I think attacking ground units with a carrier should rather have a chance of reducing the carriers readiness instead of strenght. Then it could be fixed by taking it to a friendly port.

[jon_j_rambo]

Sent the last turn to JG, small counter in Southern Russia by the Germans. Question is, will he go another round or backoff?

In the North, not much action, except the capture of Riga, sinking of one Russian cruiser & damaged the other.

All quiet in the Western & Med Fronts.

[Lars]

I think you should take a look at the number of aircraft on a Brit carrier in WWII and then consider what attacking even a Corps sized unit would do to it.

[jon_j_rambo]

May 1942 ---

Russians have backed off behind Dneiper in the South. But Fritz moves slow in the Mud. German forces sludge into the Motherland.

Meanwhile, combined naval forces from Italy & German sniff the Eastern Coast of the USA. Raids on the Canadians. Canadian bomber attempts to ding one of my subs, but we dive.

[Jollyguy]

Yes, an incredible Axis armada with five advanced subs in the vanguard, followed by probably eight surface ships the next turn appeared off the US east coast.

IMO an Axis fleet this size, particularly if it includes surface ships, should probably have a script to increase US readiness. I mean, if the Finns make note of a couple wayward Russian cruisers, then I think sunbathers at the shore in New Jersey would certainly take notice when the masts of a D-Day sized fleet appear on the horizon, and are only manned by sailors talking German and Italian. Ach der lieberstein!

Anyway, as Rambo can see, my numerically inferior US Fleet has gun laying radar 1 and ASW 2. I have also recently placed some corps on shore duty, with orders to peek under coeds swimsuits if need to be to see if their stashing compact mirrors to send signals to the soon to be enemy navy lingering offshore. We all know how women love men in uniform, especially ones from other countries. And true, the US is not at war with the Axis yet, which some women might use to justify fraternization, but that’s bound to change soon, as US readiness is in the 70's now.

In Russia I have pulled back to entrench, Rambo has two cities, but will likely soon have three. Hungary is still not in.

And from the English Home Islands I have two fighters and a bomber taking potshots at Brest and its port.

We have a tcp session scheduled for this evening, so unless my better half pulls something and scuttles my plans...as better halves are wont to do at times, we should make good progress.

Bob

[jon_j_rambo]

Yes, I paraded my fleets by the Statue of Liberty

[Jollyguy]

As expected John DOW'ed the US, sinking its entire fleet of four ships in quick order. With that done he distributed Schnaps to the German sailors, and red wine to the Italians, and pulled back.

Meanwhile he continues collecting minors: The Swiss vaults were looted; the recalcitrant Hungarians brought under heel since they were ignoring John's diplomats; I believe Portugul is subjugated, but I can't remember. I mean minors have been falling like ten pins, so you lose track; and now Petain and his collaborist Vichy regime see's what kissing AH's ass gets you...a visit by goose stepping stormtroopers. I used the briefly functional Vichy navy to spot subs refitting in Med ports, as an Axis workaround to my bombing the French and Spanish ports.

Meanwhile, In Russia, the buildup continues on both sides as the Winter of 1942 approaches, with limited skirmishing. Stalin applied the whip through a couple purges on one hand, and liberal vodka and borscht rations on the other, and Urals industry kicked in. While down in the Mideast Goddamn Hussain's father was subdued by the British army. The Gibralter effect kicks in regularly, effecting my British Med supply.

Bob

[Yogi]

Originally posted by Jollyguy:

As expected John DOW'ed the US, sinking its entire fleet of four ships in quick order. With that done he distributed Schnaps to the German sailors, and red wine to the Italians, and pulled back.

Interesting game, good game play, although once again, sounds more like a fantasy game then a WWII simulation. Maybe we can call this Galactic conflicts - earth 1940.

[jon_j_rambo]

October 1942 ---

Lennigrad was captured a few turns ago. German financed Army has strengthened the Russia front. German HQ led force has invaded Sweden. Axis naval is all over the place. Subs are raiding.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Hmm what sorts of penalties would come into play when

DoWing minors AFTER US/Russian entry? Partisans in

each conquered country (which is pretty much already

the case)? Allied-leaning countries all move toward

Allied activation? (But they're dead either way by

this strategy)

Perhaps the binary "partisans/no partisans"

subroutine which solely depends on whether certain

hexes are garrisoned needs to be tweaked? Greece

will still have partisans even if Athens is

garrisoned: we probably need more of that. Then

they could still pop up (with reduced chance

and/or reduced effect) if the city/ resource is

garrisoned, while in Russia/Yugo there would be

small chances of partisans popping up (even in

clear squares) even if everything is covered?

[Agamemnon]

Subs are raiding.

What are they raiding? Their are no more convoy.

[Jollyguy]

John still raids Canada to UK, as I hold Home Islands. I believe he has a sub in Gibralter which cause Egypt to get raided, but I wonder if this needs to be patched or a new arrow route developed, as he also holds Malta, so there is no way the Brits can ship anything to/from the Middle East when Gibralter taken except around the Cape.

[jon_j_rambo]

November 1942 ---

-Tunisa converted

-Subs are raiding, Canada & Egypt convoys.

-Massive build-up of German, Italian, & Russia ground units in Central Russia.

-Swedish will fall next turn.

[Jollyguy]

I was incorrect, there is a cape route to the left of Gibralter, so my guess is that is where John has a sub.

1942, mud and winter in Russia.

[jon_j_rambo]

Russians have found out that attacking across rivers in the mud is not effective, it cost the Red Army a tank & corp. German commanders are happy with this result. Meanwhile, Sweden has been converted by the sword.

[SeaMonkey]

Hey Rambo, since we both like to use subs, have you noticed that your subs don't raid everytime even though they are astride a convoy route?

[jon_j_rambo]

Yep, I've seen it alot. It seems the more Southern sub raids when two or placed on the Egyptian route, yet other turns both do. Also, I don't see the USA route being raided? It's always the Canadian one?

Back the game...

Russians ran & operated away, guess he doesn't want to fight. Can't chase him in the mud. My rocket popped a round, showing at least Rockets+2, his experience is nice too. Can't tell the damage though. Time to upgrade. Also, getting tired of British raids on my ports, need some AA.