capital transfer for UK

[voncasey]

playint waw as allies

UK was captured and capital trasfered to Alexandria

i recaptured Manchester with US troops but capital did not trasfer back

is the capital stuck in Alexandria if Uk is captured??

[Canuck_TAR]

Yup.

[SeaMonkey]

Usually the original regime doesn't return to its native capital until after the war is over.

The logistical requirements and supporting wartorn infrastructure precludes establishing an optimum functioning government.

And during war....you need an opti....oh well you get the point.

[voncasey]

wow that sucks as the UK troops are way too weak to defend against Germans in Alexandria when they come through North Africa cause of the hit they take after UK falls

thought it would transfer back so i evacuated Egypt only to find UK Surrendered and lost all troopers

[SeaMonkey]

Logic projected historical conjecture dictates the UK capital moves to Canada.

You have the choice.

[voncasey]

so if Alexandria is recaptured do the Brits come back into the war?

[Retributar]

The Player i think should have the choice as to whether to relocate the U.K. Capital/Government to Egypt or Canada!.

I agree that 'LOGIC' dictates the U.K. Capital be moved to Canada!.

[voncasey]

Does anyone know if you retake Alex, after the Germans capture it and knock uk out of the war, does the uk come back into the war

Asking cause i notice the MPP ticker for Uk is gaining points although the uk is out of the war.........maybe these can be used by canada?

[Hubert Cater]

voncasey, yes if Alex was the final UK capital and it is retaken by the Allies it should then re-enter the war. The accumulated MPPs can then be used or used by the UK minors such as Canada in the meantime.

Hubert

[SeaMonkey]

Hubert, how about in the event of UK capital move to Canada(UK never surrenders), UK should be able to access some % Lendlease from USA for rejuvenation?

If this happened IRL, I believe that USA would help revive UK military, just as they did with the Free French, Free Poles, etc.

This is why I ask, other than the historical context. If UK loses both homeland and Egypt, essentially the game is over for the Allies, even though the USSR is still a viable force.

The early victory conditions are still in effect if Axis take Moscow, but there should be some sort of hope for the Western Allies to re-enter the eastern hemisphere. I have played a couple of games where the WA were almost able to turn the tide again, but usually time runs out, or the Allied position capitulates(USSR) beyond all hope.

IMO, the turning tides and the long games are the most enjoyable and it may be this small additional feature inacted by choosing the "Canada UK Capital" script that adds that extra flavor(LL MPPs) of allowing the WA to balance their forces accordingly.

But... don't do it for me, cause it may be I'm the only one, other than my playing buddies that use the Canada script.

Not worth it unless the gaming community endorses as most of them may play with UK surrender.

Just a thought.

Hey...now that PDE has decision scripts, this maybe a perfect candidate for the FW campaign, let the player decide when Manchester falls.

[arado234]

I like it SeaMonkey.If I may add a few more possibilities(this could be to much)which is should Germany wipe England out(England fighting from Canada only) then America and Russias ind. might starts to climb to actual historical numbers.I think if this is done Germany should also get some major benefits.

The benefits for Germany imho should be:

-All remaning minor countries get a diplo.hit towards Germany

-Germany would be able to by show of force to"encourage"other minors to join or at minimum allow free passage through their countries to avoid being wiped out.

-German armed forces get a permanent morale boost(dont know how much maybe 5%)which would subside should the war start going against her.

-Gibralter becomes Spanish and Axis are allowed free passage through the Straits.

I know this would turn into a real slugfest but I think it would be alot of fun.Just my 2cents.

[SeaMonkey]

Kind of like slugfests A234, and thanks for weighing in, like...I mean....this is a wargame???? Right!

I too, like you, throw out a lot of possibilities always mindful of the balance repercussions.

Good ideas, especially the "show of Force" suggestion. Seems rather a common sense conclusion that diplomacy could be enhanced with the proper armed force deployment.

Put a couple of transports/amphibs off someones coast with the naval element and watch them change their tune. :eek:

[Retributar]

Original Quote by SeaMonkey!...

"Put a couple of transports/amphibs off someones coast with the naval element and watch them change their tune".

...like when 'Khadafi' was peeing his pant's when he was gazing through his binocular's at the U.S.-Carrier-Task-Force...that was bobbing around...nearby the Lybian-Coastline

[voncasey]

thanks Huber, that answers my question

actually even though UK is out, Russia is holding on and i could probably sneak back into Alexandria. didn't know you could change the script to Canada.......that is kinda cool.

[CSS]

I do know through historical record the UK would have continued fighting on reguardless. As to where the capital would transfer I think Canada would have been Britains first choice for many reasons Logistically and militarily. It should be an event for the allies at the fall of England.

I have over 2000 books and (LOL) have read them on military history.

Some interesting facts

1. The French fleet spent more time fighting the British fleet than the Germans!

2.Although the Germans deveolped the first Jet aircraft in 1938,(HE-178) Hitler didnot pursue them wondering after the war who would want them?

3.The Germans fought the war with the technology of the 50's in its infancy, and the Aliies fought the war with the tecnology of the 30's at thier zenith.

The Russians offered a FULL alliance to the Germans in Dec of 1940....If Hitler had taken them up imagine what the world would look like today?

[Retributar]

Right On 'CSS'!...

Quote by CSS!...

"3.The Germans fought the war with the technology of the 50's in it's infancy, and the Allies fought the war with the technology of the 30's at their zenith."

Many here in the past have been delusionary in believing that all that mattered was the count of the number of men and the number of the count of guns,...and have so designed their games based on that misguided pretext/principal, which is concluded from an ill thought out conclusion!. Not So!!!,...the TECHNOLOGICAL-DISPARITY is what really made the opportunities open up for such nation's such as 'Germany'.

That's why British & American equipment for the most part 'could not/would not' compare-too!,...or be equal-too!,...or better than most German Equipment!.

And so,...'unit for unit' on the game-board, they should 'NOT-BE-EQUAL' to in capability!. Yet!... the consensus of many is that...'ALL-ARE-EQUAL'???.

[arado234]

CSS ill bet if Hitler and Stalin had joined forces it would only be a matter of time before they attacked each other.You are right in the fact that the world would probably be alot different now.

Retributer what you say about German tech.is true in the sense that towards the end when it was already over Germany had a tech.atvantage tacticlly.In the beginning we had better tanks and planes just as good as Germanys.So in the beginning it wasnt Germanys technology that won such amazing fast victories it was because they new how to use what they had alot better than most of the Allied commanders did.Remember we were the ones who had the atom bomb.Nothing else would have mattered.Ill bet thats why its not included in this game.BOOOOM Goodbye Germany.

What also made a huge difference for Germany was that they had a General staff and field officers that way outclassed all the rest(although they still made mistakes).Lucky for us Hitler and Goering were at the head of it all.In the end we would have caught up and probably been on par with Germany tech.at the tac.level if we chose to do so.

[SeaMonkey]

Thats it A234, its not necessarily what you have but how you use it. In the beginning Hitler allowed innovation, experimentation and exhibited flexibility when creating new weapons and military doctrines.

Thus the German armed forces developed a great efficiency applying the combined arms technique. It was new ideas, not all good, that were allowed to be sifted and screened by practical usage, eventually honed into military expertise.

Later though, Hitler's meddling, rules and regulations, channeled military development into a more rigid environment, suffocating, to a certain extent, its evolution. This more than anything allowed the Allies to catch up and in many cases to exceed the Germans since they were lavished with resources and receptive to innovation.

Remember this..for it still applies today, unharnessed capitalism is somewhat stifling at times, like trying to run through knee deep water. But compared to a deep pool of rules and regulations to swim in, well....I'd rather get my hair wet than drown. :cool:

[Retributar]

I AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOUR ABOVE CONCLUSIONS... However!!! "TECHNOLOGY"!!! was still a DECISIVE-FACTOR!.

[arado234]

Your absolutely right Retributar tech.was a deciding factor and we had more of it through ind.tech prod.tech. and last but not least nuclear tech.

[Minty]

technology of the ealry 50s?? to misquote Rambo " what sort of bunta loving jibba jabba is this?"

A couple of radio guided missiles, a few automatic assualt rifles that cost a fortune, night sights that didn't work,200 ton tanks that could barely move and rocket planes that blew themselves up does not put the third reich into Sputnik territory. Meanwhile the Wehrmacht was the most dependent of all the major forces on mules and horses notjust at the end but even at Barbarossa.

Zenith of 30s technology? The Allies had Radar,Jet fighters,an abundance of automatic infantry weapons, faster more powerful tanks by 45, motorised corps, truly combined arms oh and the atom bomb.

But back onto the subject of this post. Canada option would be great but agreed, as it would make UK almost permanently "safe" then Germany needs a counter balance. Diplo hit on all europeans nations sounds realistic, morale boost too perhaps also bomber in iceland disapears giving germany a window of oppurtiity to capture it quickly.

[Retributar]

Minty!:

You really need to do more research on WWII Military History!. Most of your comments which projects the Allies as Technologically Superior overall as compared to the Axis, is in error!.

* Those 'Night Sights' that didn't work???. Yes!,...the German Night-Fighters were giving the Allies a very good run for their money!. At the last days of WWII the Germans were also starting to outfit their Panzer Forces with Night-Vision-Capability, but!...alas...too late in the war.

* 200 ton Tanks that didnt move?, Well during the last days of WWII the Germans didnt have to cross the Russian Steppes at breakneak speeds in order to surround or cut off Russian Tank Armies. At this juncture, all they wanted to do was to defend the homeland, so therefore...no particular need for very swift Tanks!. Those so called 200 ton Tanks were designed to be nearly invincible or nearly impossible to knock-out!.

* Rocket Planes that blew up! : Yes, they were pushing the envelope all they could to try to gain an upper hand in the air war!. They were succeding in doing so at some cost. The Germans were also working on an 'Orbital Bomber' and had...it seems a half chance of pulling it off!.

* The Atom Bomb: I have come across many references to the German race to aquire the Atom Bomb, so even though im not dead sure that they had this project on the go, there is a good chance that they were working on it, and ohhh!!! that Orbital Bomber if it had come to fruition and really had been able to fly as they had planned, could very well have been used as the delivery platform to carry an Atom Bomb overseas and drop it on New-York-City!. The V-2 could have also probably been used as a likewise vehicle to deliver Atomic payloads to Britain and the advancing Russian armies.

* The Wehrmacht being so heavily dependent on mules and horses , Yes!!!...that is very true, since their major sources of Oil Supplies were being continuously bombed or obliterated!. The Germans were even before WWII working on 'Synthetic Oil Plants' that converted Coal into Diesel Fuel!,...which is what carried them through those lean times. Their Tank's and some Jets and Rockets were either using Diesel or were being designed to run on Diesel Fuel!.

* Albert Speer was also spreading out some of the War Production into separate smaller production facilities as well as moving some production underground, such as V-1,V-2,Tank's and other items in order to evade damage from the Allied Bombing Effort!.

* With what the German's had going for them before WWII began and also for what they invented even during the early days of the war...could have very well have carried them to the Victory that they sought!. However, thanks to Hitler's incessant meddling , the war was eventually swinging over in favour of the Allies to be able to finally win it!.

[ June 17, 2008, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[arado234]

Retributar as far as the German A.bomb goes as far as what ive read and seen(quite a bit)they knew the bomb was possible(as did we)but they believed(and rightfuuly so)that it was VERY expensive and if the war was not won by 1943 they were going to loose.

As far as the rest of tech.goes they did have the very best planes and tanks but we were catching up(and would have passed them because we werenot getting bombed day and night)and what good are these weapons when youve lost most of your best pilots and tank crews that cant be replaced?

[Baron]

I remember reading somewhere that the Germans actually attempted some sort of nuclear explosion - I believe it was near Riga in 1944. From what I remember it was an incomplete reaction and although it produced a big bang it wasn't close to either "little" or "Big" Boy.

I would actually like to read more on that particular subject. I do know that Norweigian partisans sank a ferry with the equipment needed in a deep fiord. The Germans were attempting to relocate the factory back to Germany.I think the the factory produced "heavy" water although I have no idea why you would need that for the bomb. Not my cup of tea - I'd rather know what the maximum effective range of the assualt rifle I'd be using was

[arado234]

Baron there was a good doc.on this very subject(norweigian heavy water)and the amount sunk wasnt near enough to test let alone build a nuke.Nobody from the show knew what it was for.

Germanys nuke program also stalled out because alot of the scientists were huge anti-nazis and didnt want and would do all they could to stop Hitler from getting one.Weather that was a big factor,who knows.The Allies spent huge sums to test and build them and maybe the Germans realised it was something they simply couldnt afford.If Germany somehow managed to hang on long enough maybe Berlin would have been nuked.In hindsight Germany is lucky to have lost when they did.