vveedd Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Any new features for units without supply in SC2 or we will keep old formula? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Supply itself will stay about the same. SC2 will introduce a new morale formula to the supply calculation like Clash of Steel had, and this will affect what happens when units are out of supply. Rather than have unit supply immediately go to zero, morale will drop over time. So supply and readiness will not immediately vanish, but degrade over time. That's the basic idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Bill, this brings up an interesting question, will there be a provision for supply by air? I know in most cases with airborne troops that supply did not continue for a time period of 1-4 weeks(SC gameturn), but I'm thinking about a situation similar to what the Germans did at Stalingrad for the Sixth Army and what about the Americans supplying Berlin during the Berlin crises. Wasn't that around 1948? Perhaps one or two airfleets choosing "supply" as an option, like intercept, would have the capability to provide supply to a corps/army size formation, of course air supremacy would have to enter into the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 SeaMonkey airsupply was an iffy prospect at best ... the only time i can recall that it did any real good was when it was used in Burma to supply the ' Chindit's 'and 'Merrils Marauders'... http://www.grunts.net/army/rangers.html#_ww2 "Merrill's Marauders was another all-volunteer unit but was trained in jungle warfare. The unit was created in October 1943 to keep the Ledo Road of Burma open for supplies. Its commander was Brigadier General Frank Merrill. The unit was trained for long range, deep penetration raids into enemy held jungles. During its operations the 5307th was known by its code name, GALAHAD. From January until April 1944, GALAHAD was General Joseph Stilwell's most dependable combat unit in the liberation of Burma." ...but as for i think Bastone (101st airborne) and Stalingrad (Von Paulus) and Operation Market Garden and so on...the parachuted supplies fell far short of fully supplying these units. Air-Supply should be incorporated into this game...albiet...at less than full-sufficiency!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 SM, I will act as though I got Fort Benning jump training, as Bill once did, and stick my unscuffed boots in here... So far as we know, Hubert has mentioned the possibility of having "cut-off" or "trapped" units supplied by an Air Fleet. And, enemy air could very well disrupt that attempt. Also (... and, since I too have had some trouble determining supply levels for units, this next feature is an added visual-aid for those equally "supply-challenged" as I am ), "SHIFT-S" would reveal supply levels for all friendly tiles. :cool: And, last but not least... the supply level of all units will be shown on the lower basic screen interface, so that you will never have ANY doubt about what the supply level presently is (... nor, the current "morale level") for your units. Now, given that these game features CAN change somewhat over time, I am sure that Hubert can correct me if I am mis-stating his case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Sounds great DD, thanks for the response......got to love realism without complication....the way life should be. Agreed Retributar, air supply is an intangible action of insufficiency when supplying organizations the size of SC units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 got to love realism without complication....the way life should be. Ah, SeaMonkey, then you have never fiddled with that tricky tri-carb linkage you might find flopping around on a 64 1/2 Pontiac GTO! LOL! O/W, yer right... wade through the thicket & morass and then! you can casually ... CYA. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Yepper that's a big 10-4, your right DD, but I have had my wrestle with a Rochester 4MV, remember I'm a Buick man. Nowadays I dabble with Sequential Fuel Injection, much more efficient, easier to troubleshoot, a nice simple solution to carbs, "The Way It Ought to Be"(TWOB)!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 What about Minor Towns? Little Cities, they dot the Map and the World. Why can't some smaller armies pull plunder from them? I know this is a grand strategic level but don't you find a bit off when a unit is sitting over a tile/hex that you know supports 200,000 individuals yet can't keep a 10,000 man unit from starving to death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by Retributar: SeaMonkey airsupply was an iffy prospect at best ... the only time i can recall that it did any real good was when it was used in Burma to supply the ' Chindit's 'and 'Merrils Marauders'... what are you talkin about? 90,000 German troops of the 16th army's 2nd german corps survived in the demyansk-pocket 1942. Completly surrounded for two and a half months just supplied by luftwaffe. This success in front of Moscow is the reason why Hitler attempted to airsupply Paulus at Stalingrad later. It had worked well at Demyansk and at Cholm. [ August 10, 2004, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 When we look at the time scope of SC one turn is around 1-3 weeks real time? Though a cut off unit already can fight a quite long time without supplies (1 turn) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick782 Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Originally posted by Kuniworth: This success in front of Moscow is the reason why Hitler attempted to airsupply Paulus at Stalingrad later. It had worked well at Demyansk and at Cholm. Thats not exactly the true...Stalingrad was very important because of the 4 supply routes that met there. Oil, Coal and Ore were needed in Germany and all this runs through Stalingrad. The other point was the moral effect to capture a City with the Name of the russian Leader, so Hitler ordered to take it and with all the Victorys in the past, it seemed to be just another Town which could be taken easily... After the surrounding of the 6th Army, Göring said, that he can easily supply the 6th Army from Air. That was the biggest mistake and one of the biggest lies in the war, because the german Airforce wasnt able anymore to transport around 500 tons a Day of supplys because of lack of supplys, Planes, Crews and missing fighter cover...and anybody knew this at this time, even Hitler but he wanted this Town at all costs and still believed that a German Soldier is worth 10 enemies... (sorry, my english is not as good as i wish ). Ok, back from this little historical lesson, i have to say, that the idea of Airsupply is really great....but to use a Fighter Group for it isnt very historical and i dont like this idea. Its a small difference between a german FW190 fighter and the common JU52 transport plane Maybe there should be some extra Unite type "Transport" for this...the Allies had a DC3 as far as i know while the Axis had the JU52...i think it isnt to hard to add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 M782, Good point, but remember AFs represent many airplane/jet types. Perhaps HC should consider SBs for this role if indeed the feature comes to fruition as well as for paratroop/glider transport. Would give us SCers another reason to purchase SB/transport thereby diversifying the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick782 Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Yes Seamonkey, i agree with the paratroop/transport idea. That would fit perfectly. If there are Paratroops in SC2, then we need a seperate Transport plane on both sides which could be used for Supply duties too (like in history). The Germans didnt use any kind of "glider" for Paratroops (in fact, they hat only very few of them) but for the Allies, the gliders were pulled by DC3 as far as i know, so it would be historical correct. To quote you "but remember AFs represent many airplane/jet types" maybe that is the true for the Allied airforce...i dont know, but for the German Airforce, espacially in Russia, its not true. There were only small Airfields at the frontline mostly used by Fighter Squadrons. The Bombergroups stayed mostly behind at seperate Airfields with only very few Fighters (mostly reinforcements or supply) at the same Airfield. The Bombers were placed in safe Areas, took off and met their Airsupport close to the frontline because of the limited Range the fighters had. For the Allies it was nearly equal, but there Airfields in England were close together...and they had enough fuel so it wasnt that important for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vveedd Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by pzgndr: Supply itself will stay about the same. SC2 will introduce a new morale formula to the supply calculation like Clash of Steel had, and this will affect what happens when units are out of supply. Rather than have unit supply immediately go to zero, morale will drop over time. So supply and readiness will not immediately vanish, but degrade over time. That's the basic idea. I have no problem with old formula except one thing – when unit supply is finally reduced to zero unit should be automatically destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 howa bout, in Russia certian amount of unsupplyed units escape from POW camps and roundups to refill the Ranks in Corps in the rear of the Russian Guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick782 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Originally posted by Liam: howa bout, in Russia certian amount of unsupplyed units escape from POW camps and roundups to refill the Ranks in Corps in the rear of the Russian Guard I hope not...this part of game is already in the strong hands of the patisans I mostly play the axis side and it is always a bad thing if you read again, that partisans capped the supply routes or new partisans spotted in Yugoslavia Even if they are very weak...they bind troops i really could use at the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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