Initial placement of units of Minors/Russians after declaration of war.

[KDG]

Concerning the units of Minors after they join or have war declared on them.:

1) will they be placed in the same place each time similar to SC,

2) or will they be random(could appear in any number of squares),

3) or can the defending side place the units after declaration of war?

[vveedd]

Good question and good idea but there is one problem - if defending side can place their units turn must be over right away after DOW. I don't think that is possible, specially in turn based game like this.

[SeaMonkey]

This is a job for the editor and hopefully you will trust your opponent to not look at your deployments prior to the DoW.

[ April 15, 2004, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

[Some_God]

They should be moved depending on the hotspot. Example: Say its 1939 and Spain massed their forces on their border with France. Now those units stay there but then in 1943, when France is defeated, the Allies invade and land on Portugal. Spain then masses their troops on their border with Portugal, just in case the Allies try something funny.

Thats my 2 cents.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Hmm...perhaps the declared-upon country will get

a turn where it can set up, but not move or attack

or anything. I.E.:

1. Attacking country Declares War...

2. Defending country gets free setup with no

moves/attacks allowed, pre-war MPPs if it

is a major country...

3. Attacking country then invades.

The only problem I see is that other nations not

involved in the war can use the extra turn to make

preparations of their own. Wait! I got it: the

DoW becomes known to the defender only AFTER he

hits his end turn button, THEN he gets the free

setup before he is attacked (can't do anything

else, including new build orders), THEN he ends

his turn for real, and the other guy can then

perform his invasion. Perfect. :cool:

John DiFool

[roman uk]

Dont you think this eliminates the 'surprise attack'? Hitlers victories were all predicated on surprise, quick maneuvre, combined arms, and applictaion of disproportionate force in crucial sectors. aka Poland, France, barbarossa, blau (not Russia (g)) The wehrmacht was often outnumbered on the entire front but not in the crucial sectors with major belligerents. For minors the wehrmacht often swept aside prior to them reaching full mobilization.

Also, this setup turn would be clumsy to implement.

I think allowing the player to set up would not be the best, but the computer should have varied set ups for countries that it would chose at random in the beginning of the game or change depending on situation.

[pzgndr]

SC1 already provides alternate setups for some minors. Finland, for example, has a different setup if Germany declares war on it, as I discovered the hard way during one game. So with the new event scripting and editor capabilities, I expect we'll be able to establish a variety of setups for everyone.

As for Italy, USSR, and USA, the plan is to have them active from the start so players can at least make some choices about what units to build and where to deploy them etc. With FoW, this should make competitive games VERY interesting.

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

In advanced Third Reich, upon attacking an inactive nation, the opposing side immediately allocated defender forces as they saw fit.

And being a board game, the opposing player saw exactly where the opposition was set up. It never hurt the game, and many years later it is still a great wargame.

Now in a computer game you have the benefit of FOG of war. Although in SC if it is turned off, your opposition sees all just like with the board games.

I would suggest all DOWS be mandated as being first of turn limited actions for possible simplicity sake. Not sure if that is even required though.

Let the defense place their units where they see fit inside their borders. Do you honestly think they have no clue about the potentially hostile intent of their neighbours?

If your game play is worth squat, then it won't matter if the defense is aware you have troops massing.

In real life nations do that all the time just to fake you out eh.

I personally think, defending forces should have reduced defensive effectiveness though. Lets face it, until you are ar war, you just can't tell if the opposition is faking eh.

Leave the defenses weaker on turn one. This should be enough edge I would think. It was all they had in real life eh.

The attack through the Ardennes was not successful because of any one factor. Part of the success was just that the British and French just didn't see their own peril coming.

It is all the more surprising they did it again in 44 actually.

You snooze you lose eh.

Playing the game against templated defense set ups though, is the reason we are well versed in "gambits". If the set up for inactive nations was discretionary, I dare say most gambits would not exist.

Placing an army in Rome sure would kill the Rome gambit.

[Sombra]

Simple solutions would be : Random selection of various defensive patterns. Not to predictable. Perhaps troops for minors will be reinforced if Axis is to aggressive or is amassing troops at the border?

Or player could set up defensive patterns as an option in his turn for each minor country:

for example:

a. Defensive pattern around the capital

b. Hide: Scattered in the whole country

c. Aggressive: Massed at border

[ April 16, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Sombra ]

[Dragonheart]

Another solution would be placement by yourself.....

[Edwin P.]

Or allow for active neutrals.

Example:

If Norway is attacked by Axis then Sweden has a 50% to become an Allied controled active Neutral for X turns. The Allied player can move Swedish units within Sweden except for unit in Capital city during those turns, but can't DOW Sweden themselves. (prevents allied player from moving units out of capital and then landing Corps to take capital). Axis player does not know that Sweden is an Active Neutral.

If Vichy France is attacked by Axis then have a 50% for Spain to become an Allied controlled Active Neutral Nation. Allied player can then move Spanish units for X number of turns.

[ April 16, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Edwin P.]

Another Different Idea for Active Neutrals

Active Neutrals can accumulate and build units.

Example: IF Axis DOW Vichy then Spain has a 25%chance to become an Active Neutral. As an active neutral the AI will accumulate MPPs based on the cities it controls and spend them to purchase additional units. If the Axis waits to long to attack Spain it might find that Spain has built several additional units - ie Corps. If not attacked within six months the Active neutral nation will return to Neutral Status and stop building new units.

[KDG]

As for Italy, USSR, and USA, the plan is to have them active from the start so players can at least make some choices about what units to build and where to deploy them etc. With FoW, this should make competitive games VERY interesting.

This is very good news indeed. Makes the game a little more interesting for Allies after the fall of France.

I do think there needs to be some limitations on where the units can be located in order to keep the game somewhat historically realistic.