[SURVEY] Do you really care about the A.I.?

[J P Wagner]

Who would have dreamed that Gregory Peck and Sir Laurence Olivier would be in a movie together that ended up in a WWE wrestling match!...classic stuff, though Brazil and Omen had Gregory feeling a bit peckish around Dobermans!

[Blashy]

The game needs a good AI because as repeatedly stated, the majority of people will play the AI only.

[Edwin P.]

Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

I needed to custom make scenarios giving huge advantages to the AI or it isn't a game. Even then the strategies are always predictable so it isn't much fun......

My great disappointment with the SC AI, as I'm sure was yours and all the other members, was the computer never did anything with Scandinavia or North Africa and never budged with the U. S. if the UK was out of the war. It's D-Day activities were totally unrealistic and easy to parry ....

I do believe a game on this subject can have a very good AI player and I look forward to playing one....

-- My guess is it would need to be an AI that can function largely on simple decisions while setting, and sticking to, an effective long range strategy. It should also have surprise elements, like landing in Scandinavia and North Africa once in a while as the Allies.

-- -- I hope Hubert including the option we suggested ages ago of having the AI see everything, while the human is confined to the Fog of War...the AI seeing twice as far as the human, but not quite everything, that would be even better and still leave some stealth strategies open to the human player.

I agree with the JerseyJohn's analyssis. The key element that disappointed me with SC1, although the game engine is great, was the too-predictable strategic level AI.

And as he stated above - "an AI that can function largely on simple decisions while setting, and sticking to, an effective long range strategy." - in my mind is key to developing a good AI for SC2.

At its simplest level the long range strategy for the AI could be deciding between a Sealion vs Control the Med Strategy vs Nordic Conquest vs Russia First or a Russia early strategy.

PS: Russia Early Strategy (10%) - Axis attacks Russia before it has had time to build up a strong army and annex the Baltic states. I have tried this against several PBEM humans and the AI and its most interesting as it totally changes the game for the Russian player. Since it is largely land based it would be relatively easy to implement.

PS: It was indicated in an earlier post that the AI FOW Option Off, Human FOW On will be in the game.

PS: With AI scripting it may be possible to make the AI much more unpredictable in SC2.

[ November 28, 2005, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Retributar]

Im for a great 'AI' in any game!.

Game AI is the way of the future in gaming for the reasons in these posts.

I myself do not have the time to play online or send games by E-Mail...but, prefer to indulge as and when i have the time for it!.

If agame does not have 'AI'..."i wont buy it"!.

[Comrade Trapp]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

I've never met an AI that was worth a dang (for a real game, not C-Trapp's Shutes & Ladders computer version).

@C-Trapp --- Have you ever beaten the AI in SC?

I post my personal opinion on a subject that has nothing to do with you, only to have you throw cheap shots like that simply because you don’t agree with me.

That’s real big of you Rambo.

The second quote you seem to post quite often (it seems anytime you disagree with me), which I find interesting because I've answered it for you repeatedly.

For now on, I would appreciate it if you no longer refer to me in your posts. nuff said.....

[Dan Fenton]

A good AI is important to me. Almost all of my computer games are played against the computer.

Strategic Command happens to be such a good game that it is the only computer game that I have ever played by e-mail with another opponent. (We couldn't get the live Internet to work. It may have something to do with both of us having computers accessing through Internet routers.) However, playing by e-mail is a great deal of fun and is extemely convenient.

I will go out on a limb, but I believe that Hubert will do a good job on the AI. He has the experience from doing the AI on the original game. That game had a better than average AI. Therefore, I believe that the AI in this game will be even better with his greater experience and our many suggestions.

Although they are not historic wargames, I thought that the turn based computer games of Warlords III and Heroes IV had good AI's.

[Agent Smith]

Lars was most succinct about this. Without an A.I component, it is not a computer game.

All the guys in this thread, big noting themselves should go back to playing with cardboard, dice and rule-books and using their computer for posting their moves to the like minded. The challenge of a computer game is combatting the A.I.

Games that "challenge your brain and not just the mouse." TCP/IP and PBEM, should be seen as the icing on the cake, not the primary focus. A.I. WILL determine the commercial viability of this product.

[waltero]

After a while all AI sucks. I hope it works well on the multi player games? what is going to happenwhen a player drops from a game? AI takes over? or maybe some one else can be called in?

It would be a good thing if players can manipulate the AI (allied) in multi player games. aggressive, submissive, neutral, War monger or even suicidal (my personal fave)

[I luv Communists]

Does SC 2 have human on human games aswell as AI on human?

Cheers

I hope my ignorance isnt annoying

[Desert Dave]

Does SC 2 have human on human games aswell as AI on human?

Most certainly. :cool:

Even,

Some human VS so-close-to-human

You can't hardly tell

Without yer DNA sensor

You sent off for with them Wheaties box-tops.

I hope my ignorance isnt annoying

This could NEVER be. Ever.

PLENTY of folks MORE than eagre

To tell you what is what,

And what it is, is much,

And which and where is... meagre.

Though,

A couple Vandals may clamber in, eventually,

And make wise with yer handle. :eek:

Being pseudo Capitalists (... Corporate

welfare and all)

And charmed by faux democracy (... nice idea,

perhaps we'll try it some time?)

So... get ready!

LOLOLOLOL!

waltero,

Didn't you know?

There ain't no

Many player game no more, just

The two sides,

2/3 of Axis, and the Allied.

Now, on topic, as some would

Absolutely INSIST, every once in a while,

For each & every thread:

This AI won't suck,

But, it will be the BEST

That it can be,

And that's no fast-buck luck,

It's Hubert passing

Yet another... 1/0 test. :cool:

[Kuniworth]

Dammit Dave, you got 1800 posts most of them in some kinda poetic fashion. I think BF oughta giva ya some medal for it. Your dedication or what should I call it is incredible. I thought my gay=happy period lasted long but it was nothin compared to this...

[Kuniworth]

Actually about the AI quality. GO read gamespot or any other big website and you'll see that the criticism against SC 1 was mainly about the AI. Gamespot ranked SC as great which could have been even better with a tougher AI.

[Comrade Trapp]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

Actually about the AI quality. GO read gamespot or any other big website and you'll see that the criticism against SC 1 was mainly about the AI. Gamespot ranked SC as great which could have been even better with a tougher AI.

SC received PC Gamer's "Editor’s Choice” when it first came out, which was one of the primary reasons I bought it. Up until that point, I had never bought games over the internet, SC was the first.

[Kuniworth]

SC is a great game, but it could be even better. But the great thing with sc 2 will be the editor...look at Norm Koger's Operational art of war...still going strong like 8-9 years after release. Why? Not AI but the editor.

[Kuniworth]

ok just to clearify, editor is not my thing really, I like a soild historical game formost. So any smartguy wanna poke me about the editor can stop in their tracks now at once...

[Edwin P.]

Making a good AI is not easy, as Rambo often says.

So why not give the AI an unpredictable bonus and make sure that it knows how to use it to the best advantage.

Example:

Random Axis Bonus Units at Genius AI Level

20% - 2 German Bombers

20% - 2 German Subs

20% - 2 German Rockets

20% - 2 German Fighters

20% - 1 German Carrier

This would add some unpredicatable variety to the game, and it would not be hard to implement at this basic level.

At a more advanced level the AI might get bonus units with specified mission orders that would limit their deployment options to a specific theater until the mission is accomplished.

Example:

5% - 2 Bonus Fighters, Mission: Egypt

5% - 2 Bonus Fighters, Mission: Russia

5% - 2 Bonus Fighters, Mission: Defend France

5% - 2 Bonus Fighters, Mission: Any

In the First example the AI would deploy these fighters to North Africa until Egypt is conquered (or the home country is invaded).

[Caen Liberator]

Back to the original topic... "Is it even possible to make a good A.I.?"

ABSOLUTELY.

Hubert is pouring his heart and soul into this game, to make it as innovative as possible with respect to the AI. He could have released a sub-par or ever average game a long time ago, with the AI of a pacman ghost, but he didn't. I'm confident his efforts will be worth it and a good majority of us will be very pleased with his final product. Keep up the good work, sir!

Can't wait for the release!!!

[jon_j_rambo]

Guys, SC was lame at the ORIGINAL RELEASE. In only my 2nd time playing, I figured out how to win as Germans EVERY game. I posted the thread, I beat everybody. It required a quick Rambo patch. I gave up on SC, until the TCP/IP patch, that's when the fun began.

If Hubert is wise, he'll have Yodl test it.

[Desert Dave]

But the great thing with sc 2 will be the editor...look at Norm Koger's Operational art of war...still going strong like 8-9 years after release. Why? Not AI but the editor.

Moon Enthused Mensa Imp Mensch,

Could not have stated it better

Had I tried.

Well,

Actually, I have tongue tied

Tried, though,

Sum sortsa slango lingo don't often do

So good for many, or enny folks.

That there Editor is going to make

The ordinary Jake - a Wizard!

And, BTW,

Thanks.

I'd offer forth for alla us

Indian learnt idjits - a toast.

Yep, go out in this vast backyard

Here on sun dunned desert,

What's got rattle-snake holes

And Yucca stuck all over the place?

And a huge funneling rain-made gulley

Whereat Jack the Rabbit doth race so!

To dis-materialize inna hip hop haste?

And too

This! Crazy horse skeleton skull

Still with bit-brittle teeth exact intact!

(... it's the realest church I'll

see and attend to)

Only... :eek:

Just like Bobby D

Over to Maggie's Farm - U know the one?

With the psycho delicate twist wire?

All along - the Watchtower?

Hot Damn! and Cool as that through

The looking-glass Door

Man O bad alas, Mister Mojo!

Can't summon

Welling waters... nope, my pump don't work,

Cuz... the Vandals took

The handles!

Ayup, ransacked that hand-ratchet thing

Right clean outta the works, they did!

(Skol)

I wonder... is this trope topical?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

[Kuniworth]

dude...easy on the drugs

[Desert Dave]

Haven't done any of that **** for... going on 15 years now, thank the Stars.

Yah, it's being HIGH on... Life, babe,

Nothing more.

Is needed.

(... BTW again - you should do Travelogues. For money. A photo-journalist is what they call them. Do it, write it up, go to a Publisher, see what happens. Me? I sell an occasional poem to a mini mag and get five bucks and 2 free copies of their obscure rag, LOLOL)

[DSEDS]

I´ll never play online such a game. Give me Dual Core powered A.I.!!!

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Originally posted by I luv Communists:

Does SC 2 have human on human games aswell as AI on human?

Cheers

I hope my ignorance isnt annoying

Does it have AI on AI games, where our scripted AI's

can go at each other and the best AI scripter wins?

[Edwin P.]

John DiFool the 2nd, thats a great idea - AI on AI games for player scripted AIs.

[pzgndr]

Does it have AI on AI games

No. Hopefully yes with future enhancements?

Multiplayer games with more than two players is on the To-Do list, potentially with AI being one or more or all of the players, but it's still unclear how or when this will happen. Let's get the 2-player game released first, yes?