Capt. Miller Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Situation: Suddenly your vehicle blows up. No target line is evident. No HE explosion so the kill was an AP hit. No smoke from an enemy gun is detectable. Inqiry: I would like to know some experiances and opinions about this kind of event in CMBO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Ist shot hit/kill from bazooka/equivalent from cover. Ist shot hit/kill from AT gun from mid/long range from cover. Plus you have no infantry units/similar close to source of kill to enable id. Welcome to the forum you lurker [ September 05, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Wicky ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crank_GS Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Picture this: Veteran Bazooka (or PIAT, 'shreck whatever...), with a stealthy leader, perhaps with a nice little combat bonus, hidden in woods/brush, probably in a foxhole... Or maybe: Crack ATG, with the same leader, also emplaced... I guess you see where this is going. It has happened many times to me - as I imagine that it happened many times IRL. Try panning around the battlefield when the tank detonates. You might hear the offending weapon fire. When I do that, it is usually a handheld rocket of some sort. But you may hear the weapon fire. But - don't let any other tanks drive up to steal their leftover beer, sausage and pinups 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowfox Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 AT guns or Bazookas.. At least something happens To me, the most annoying fire there is is a 20mm or a 37mm plinking from a hidden position at armor. Damned tread hits and forcing to button up.. Like 30 damned shots a turn. Accurate fire too at long range. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Topic; Your tank receives a Volltreffer, no sign of the enemy firing. Experiences; This happends to me all the time. Its usually a smaller antitank gun, placed in a non-obvious position, firing from an angle I didn't think of, all made possible by my neglect of proper reconnaissance. Its rarely handheld antitank in my scenarios, as infantry tends to provide screens for the tanks, but I have been hit by PIATs from upper floors in builtup areas, without ever detecting them. Opinions; With me coming from the ASL world of if-I-see-you-then-you-see-me (Ex:HIP), being ambushed is one of the most arousing and at the same time deeply satisfying experiences of CMBO. It also tells you your opponent is for real, and losing is a very real possibility. You feel fear, and its great. As for realism, I find spotting in CMBO too generous. I hear it is less so in CMBB, which must make antitank guns even more terrifying. Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 PIATs are absolutely top-notch for doing this sort of thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Originally posted by flamingknives: PIATs are absolutely top-notch for doing this sort of thing. PIAT "...In spite of its unlikely appearance, the PIAT was amongst the most effective infantry anti-tank weapons of its day, with a performance equal to that of the visually more sophisticated American bazooka. Although it was a cumbersome device, it possessed a number of advantages over such rocket weapons, namely that there was no back-blast from firing, and so not only could it be safely fired from an enclosed space, but it would also not give away its handlers position to the enemy." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I like Dandelion's ability to separate himself from the game as in... Drat, what the ( ) is going on?! Then Cool I was ambushed ! For Capt. Miller: Remember on Groucho, when the duck came down when you said the magic word? Sneaky shooting Toad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 could be worse yet. a 1/2track with a 75 or some other afv could be the culprit. it you don't have anyone else with a line of sight to the area it could be anything. don't count on the surviving crew spotting it. they are probably running the other way and terrible at seeing anything. not that i think it happend in your case but i have witnessed what appeard to be a art 155 round utterly core out (from the top down) a stugG. pretty funny.... from my point of view. todd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Miller Posted September 8, 2003 Author Share Posted September 8, 2003 Thanks for the replies. These factor's make sense: firing unit has low or small profile, is in command, stealth value in present, is in a concealed position, has not previously fired or at least been observed to have fired from that position, and I would add is not or has not moved in sight of the enemy. But the last vehicle I lost was KOed by an AFV hunting forward. To me this falls outside reasonable parameters. In addition I find it interesting the all respondents have been victims of unsighted fire but no one claimed they had purposely fired in this way, let alone mastered the technique. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrock1957 Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Hey Todd but i have witnessed what appeard to be a art 155 round utterly core out (from the top down) a stugG. pretty funny.... from my point of view. I have seen that too a big time shell fallin out of the sky looking like a "fruit fly" and whamo.. hole in the ground and burning AFV... it doesnt get much better than that.. If I worried about everytime an AFV got took out by something sight unseen I would be bald (hell I do look like a cue ball) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 The 20mm Flak gun is especially good (unfairly so?) at remaining undetected after firing. You can be right on top of the bloody thing and not see it. Len 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horncastle Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 " But the last vehicle I lost was KOed by an AFV hunting forward. To me this falls outside reasonable parameters. In addition I find it interesting the all respondents have been victims of unsighted fire but no one claimed they had purposely fired in this way, let alone mastered the technique. " Well a good firing position should ideally not give away your position. Hunting is like the word a hunt, and I imagine it as a lioness slowly stalking forward, not some charging bull. The AFV may have been hull down on its path, had a small silouette or you may have been buttoned or distracted by something else, or your crew just plain. CMBO does model the confusion of a battlefield and depending on the experience of your troops sometimes it takes them time to even see targets dead in front of you. I wouldnt get too frustrated by it if you have, just use it to your advantage and turn the tables! Regarding the latter it is nigh on impossible to 100% verify if you have achieved a hidden KO, as one cannot see the viewpoint and Fog of War as the enemy sees it. If I had a PIAT sneaking through woods and taking a stug out from the sides I would be pretty sure there was no chance of being spotted, but in many situations you just dont know if anyone has seen you. From playing the CMBB demo the spotting of firing units is far more realistic and as in real life, spotting a flash from 500m away while under fire is nigh on impossible. Best of luck, happy hunting! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta1 Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 I think I have achieved "hidden kills" on several occasions but as horncastle points out you can never be 100% sure they didnt see you. One of the best AT guns for doing this is the brit 6pdr - its small, accurate and lethal. If you hit and kill a buttoned tank with the first shot theres a very good chance they would never see the gun. PIATs are also very good at this if theres no infantry around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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