Desert Dave Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 TaoJah, expressing his opinion, which is always good, even if NOBODY else agrees :cool: : IMHO it is a BIG BIG BIG mistake to ship half-finished games. IMO, it wasn't HALF finished, But MOSTLY finished. Counting on patches to improve it, just isn't good business practice... To name just two obvious recent examples: HOI and CIV 3 & 4 Had, I'd bet the ranch, MANY coders and testers, And what was their wonderful result? ALOT of players don't patch their games, so guess who won't be buying any futher products here ? Who doesn't know how to "patch" a game? If they don't, they ask. Very many will rush to answer. IF the game is released to retail, You can be assured it will be finalized So that those who REALLY Don't buy over the net WILL have the completed game. For someone that plays against the AI, the only fun thing to do is to try to beat your own Major Victory date, that's all there is to do. Hotseat - it's a VERY good method to learn How better to play, though, HvsH or PBEM is the best way. Just a guess, But you are reacting to a "general trend" In the PC game niche industry, And not necessarily THAT unhappy with This particular one? After all, You have an unprecedented Editor, Which MOST don't have, And very best of all, You have a Game Designer Who will not quit! Until he feels the game Is how it should be. What more do you want? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolend Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Originally posted by Timskorn: From the sound of it HC is fixing some non-script stuff that'll make the current AI much more competent. Just the simple fix of having the AI properly upgrade their units, or buy units upgraded, can have a huge effect on difficulty level. There is NO doubt that simple fixes like this as well as the script allowing the AI US to invade France will make this game a LOT more competetive and I look forward to that patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Rattlehead Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Amen.....AI Unit upgrade improvement, for me, will deffinately make my game playing, much more enjoyable. With script editing, and a competent AI that upgrades units, SHOULD.. be enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Taojah does have a point though. Missing D-Day was rather bone-headed. But, if Hubert does an e-mail to all who ordered with the patch info, I don't think it's going to be the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 You'll NEVER get a good A.I., quit dreaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gérard Le Poer Trench Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Mustang 96 I didn't buy a game what I had to script myself to make it worth playing. After a few Hours I finished the game in 1941! It is to damn easy. I am now playin HOI 2 is really a great game many features I missed are in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 HOI2 sux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axis_General Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 And the AI in HOI2 is much better? If you want a challenge there are plenty of good players willing to battle you over TCP/IP. Get ICQ and read the thread titled ICQ contact list and start adding contacts. I have about 15 people on mine and can get a game started anytime in a matter of minutes. You will get more than challenge and forget about ever playing a stupid AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 AIs sux, see my first ever post 4 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrogdog Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Counting on patches to improve it, just isn't good business practice : ALOT of players don't patch their games, so guess who won't be buying any futher products here ?99% of the time I would agree with this. However, at the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I trust Battlefront to come through. I purchased the game with my eyes wide open. I put a lot of faith in the atmosphere that Battlefront has created here. Hubert has a solid track record of responding to issues raised by the community. In my opinion, it is not fair to compare Battlefront to most others. I have been playing games for a very long time. I know a labor of love when I see it. Case closed as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I just paid $60 for a tank of gas, you think I care about the $45 + $8 shipping for a game I'll play alot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 @Scrogdog -> thumbs up @Rambo - juice getting more expensive with every minute your guys walk the iraqi desert, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartknock3r Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: I just paid $60 for a tank of gas, you think I care about the $45 + $8 shipping for a game I'll play alot? Glad I can't drive. But then again, my parent's would pay for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: I just paid $60 for a tank of gas, you think I care about the $45 + $8 shipping for a game I'll play alot? I hate to go off topic, but weren't you one of the ones complaining heavily about the shipping charge at pre-order time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang96 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Not going to get into a war of words with anyone. SC2 is a great game! If you don't like it that's your opinion. The AI will get better with the patch and with scripting. That's why there's an awesome editor! Hey if you don't have the smarts to do it yourself then download Timskorn great mod or any other mod that's soon to be available! Mustang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Best player does not always equal Best beta tester. Beta testing (properly) is often not fun at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 @Yoga --- Now, I'm onto complaining about gas prices, we won the war in Iraq, thus prices should drop (well, when I'm President I'll take care of business). On the otherhand, I don't flip-flop, so if you'd like me to complain again about the past $8 charge, I'd be more than happy to do so Remember guys, I love you & the Lord loves you. But also remember,"Love has nothing to do with my convictions" --- Lester Roloff. So, quit crying about the A.I., and listen to the Icons & Legends regarding testing. -The Man, The Myth, The Legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 @Tony Blashy --- Son, obviously you're letting your pride stand in the way of progress! When you have a group of Icons present 'World Wide Houserules', & flawless records (Yodl), it's time for you to wake & smell the coffee. Also, work on your reading skills. I'm not the one bashing the game, I like it. Just wish we could have saved alot of time going thru this process. In another thread, you went after me also, when I was defending the game against more bashers. Think & slow down when you read. Read for content, not out of jealously of the author. -The Man, The Myth, The Legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I'm simply stating the obvious, I never said ALL top players whould make bad candidates. But being the best at a game does not equal being the best at beta testing as it involves tons of stuff outside of the "winning tactic". It is you who keeps stamping about that only the best hvh players from ANOTHER game would have made the best testers. And be aware that many ideas that people have suggested here were probably already suggested by us, but in the end Hubert has final say AND he only knows what can and can't be added to the game. Over 50% of the ideas suggested here were already discussed in beta, if not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanhope Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Okay it's late. But to bad mouth any game when compared to playing AI is dum. War games have been design from years back to be played player verses player. I can only remember 1 or 2 games that where played by yourself. And we not talking about the closet game. Any way the game looks fine and does need some tweaking to inprove. But I believe that the new patches will solve some of these problems. As for playing the AI. I think you will never have a game that will be really challenging for the long haul. If you don't want to be on the play by mail league and post loses. Than find players who play off the board. There are really a lot of nice guys out there that play for the fun of it. Play by mail is not bad. Now in my case my work has really loaded me up. My turns have been really been bad on getting them back in a timely manner. And to those they do understand. Any way to the design team. I think you did a find job of putting out a good game. And with patches these problems will be solved. Any way, it not like the old box or bag game you purchased, if it sucked, it was you as is. NO PATCHES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stragic Command Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 I do not mean to insult anyone or the genuis behind the game Hubert or all the developers of the game! I love the game but all I want is a allie that spend all of its resource as axis when faces with the decision to defend! I think the AI does a great job attack and setting up operation barbarassa but as a certain point in the fight the AI must learn that they need to take the defence as germany but they don't and just keeps on attacking until I encircle all of their man around stalingrad!! This is at +2 eperience boost to the AI!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stragic Command Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 And my final thought is please make the AXIS AI learn how to defend after they run out of offensive steam in RUSSIA and spend everyone one of its resource! Believe me developers if you can do that nobody can beat the AI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Stragic, no offense taken at all. Like I said, the choice to spend time on other things than trying to outguess all the various player strategies was made deliberately. I think it was a very wise choice, because I am playing wargames long enough to realize that no AI will ever be good enough. Unless you allow it cheat (like most RTS games do), or restrict game choices to a minimum (like most FPS games do), things that we simply do not want. So instead we decided for an open AI which can be made better by players, but will also constantly be improved by Hubert to match player strategies. One general comment: everybody is allowed to express his opinions on the forum, even if they have been expressed more than once before. Guys, you have to understand that this forum is open for all players, and there are by now thousands. None of these players is more equal than others, and while it might become tiring to hear the same things over and over, believe it or not but many (most?) people come here to post, not to read , so you forum regulars just have to accept that things will be repeated. Over and over. That requires patience, not disrespect. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Well, Martin, at least the BF board is a lively place I guess a lot of other game companies would just love to have this high level of activity on their forums. The community loves you guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Originally posted by hellraiser: The community loves you guys you high or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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