Soviet losses in ww2

[Cary]

Originally posted by Liam:

We've spent how many billions in an attempt to give them something beyond despotism? That's why gas is 3 -4 bucks a pop in the SouthEast and why we shall lose Social Security for our elderly, to give them a Free Society.. It's starting to get tedious, they don't want to be free bad enough. Look at the Isrealis, look what they've sacrificed for their freedom? Now that is a people I can actually admire..

And here, in essence, you and I agree. I just have a teeny problem with the billion or so dollars we funnel to Israel every year: I'm not so sure it's a good idea to sacrifice so much for their freedom. This particularly when bombing Lebanon and reoccupying Gaza will likely "inspire" another 50-100 jihadis in Baghdad. I have all sorts of sympathy for Israel wanting to release its three hostages, but it gets messy when it means that the United States has to spend even more blood and treasure in the shooting gallery.

... apologies, ever so briefly I was on topic....

[ July 14, 2006, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Cary ]

[Liam]

Hmmm, didn't think about the massive US aide to Isreal. Traditional Ally of the USA, but lately why do we aide them? That's interesting, and beyond my knowledge. They seem more than capable of defending themselves. Though they've the right policy toward their Enemies, instead of cowaring toward Terrorism, they are showing as did the English we're not bowing down nor tolerating. The IRA failed and the Palestinians will fail... Better to negotiate, they had nearly all the Desires, Just a little cooperation. Clinton had it worked out with Arafat and Sharon(Sp? again a subject I'm not a specialist in, and off topic.

Soviet losses back on topic. How many I wonder died after Kursk? Though the Germans were now fighting for their survival?

Originally posted by Cary:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Liam:

We've spent how many billions in an attempt to give them something beyond despotism? That's why gas is 3 -4 bucks a pop in the SouthEast and why we shall lose Social Security for our elderly, to give them a Free Society.. It's starting to get tedious, they don't want to be free bad enough. Look at the Isrealis, look what they've sacrificed for their freedom? Now that is a people I can actually admire..

And here, in essence, you and I agree. I just have a teeny problem with the billion or so dollars we funnel to Israel every year: I'm not so sure it's a good idea to sacrifice so much for their freedom. This particularly when bombing Lebanon and reoccupying Gaza will likely "inspire" another 50-100 jihadis in Baghdad. I have all sorts of sympathy for Israel wanting to release its three hostages, but it gets messy when it means that the United States has to spend even more blood and treasure in the shooting gallery.

... apologies, ever so briefly I was on topic.... </font>

[aesopo]

the main shadow players are syria and iran - no amount of negotiating with hamas or hezbollah would stand as long as syria and iran are pulling the main strings. The israelis have a right to exist and our aide to israel pales in comparison to the hundreds of billions we have squandered in Iraq. Who should answer for this debacle?

[Fartknock3r]

Originally posted by Liam:

We've spent how many billions in an attempt to give them something beyond despotism? That's why gas is 3 -4 bucks a pop in the SouthEast and why we shall lose Social Security for our elderly, to give them a Free Society.. It's starting to get tedious, they don't want to be free bad enough. Look at the Isrealis, look what they've sacrificed for their freedom? Now that is a people I can actually admire..

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Fartknock3r:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Liam:

I think America should stuff the Iraqi Democracy up the Arabs asses along with every other Arab nation,

People should be able to choose there own government, right? </font>

[aesopo]

any government as long as it suits US interests is a good ally regardless of the lack of any democracy. A uniform law of human rights and good governance should be imposed by UN mandate. No single country has the moral monopoly of freedom and democracy. We have been foolish long enough.

[Cary]

Originally posted by aesopo:

... in comparison to the hundreds of billions we have squandered in Iraq. Who should answer for this debacle?

My humble, oh-so non-partisan opinion? Not who but what, and the answer is the Presidency.

The founding fathers rigged our system basically so a bad or mediocre president couldn't do too much damage. In general a pretty wise decision: democracy is, after all, the worst form of government except when you consider the alternatives. And, all said and done, I'm afraid both Clinton and Junior have done a lot to prove out that maxim.

Democrats from FDR through Johnson and then Nixon/Kissinger worked to re-rig the system to give the president a more decisive role in foreign policy. This may have been a good idea for the time, but it is inappropriate now -- decisions just don't need to be made as fast. And the system as it stands now gives any president way too much opportunity to foul things up.

(Sure, there's the "terrorist nuke in Baltimore" scenario, but we've got to be realistic, the best decision to be made there involves who goes in to clean up -- I hate to be so brutal, but we know from Katrina that the United States can survive the loss of one of its cities.)

[aesopo]

but the issue with social security is that the govt had basically used it as a piggy bank and trillions of IOUs are left.

[Ottosmops]

The losses of human lives in WW2 were certainly horrible.

But can you imagine that since 1945 there were probably more children killed by abortion then people died in WW2?

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by Yogi:

@Kuniworth, I'm curious. I have a question or two about your forum behavior.

1) I have seen you edit other peoples quotes when you reply putting your own words into their post. Sometimes it seems it is done for humor,(in fact your version of one of mine was quite funny) but perhaps you have other reasons as well?

2) I note that you at times go back and edit out some of your own offensive remarks and insults. Is this to fool the moderators? Or perhaps because you know you were out of line?

Seriously, I'm curious. You have many good posts, but have a tendancy to go off the deep end at times. If you are going to go on tirades with your comments, either keep them there so all can see what you do, or apologize when you remove them.

Oh mine gott I have a personal stalker!!!!!

Damn Rambo will be impressed. Hey Yogi, you were once an Old Guard but you snapped and became a coward. Now do your stalker-duty and go back and read all of my 3000+ posts.

You're dismissed.

[Ottosmops]

More casualty numbers:

In the war in Iraq some 2500 US Soldiers died.

Approximately the same number of people died in my little country in traffic accidents during the same period.

If one extrapolates these numbers, one can say, that a battle of Stalingrad is happening every year at the streets of the industrialized countries.

[Fartknock3r]

Yep, sadly people are dying now... now... now.. now... but luckily, people are being born now... now... now... now... circle of life I guess. Sucks that people have to die though.

Um, and i'd rather live in a democracy then a dictatorship. I seriously do feel free in the U.S.! Then again i don't have to pay taxes and other stuff, school is only thing getting in the way!

But seriously, i don't really care about countries governments until it starts affecting my lifestyle. So far, it hasn't.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Yogi:

@Kuniworth, I'm curious. I have a question or two about your forum behavior.

1) I have seen you edit other peoples quotes when you reply putting your own words into their post. Sometimes it seems it is done for humor,(in fact your version of one of mine was quite funny) but perhaps you have other reasons as well?

2) I note that you at times go back and edit out some of your own offensive remarks and insults. Is this to fool the moderators? Or perhaps because you know you were out of line?

Seriously, I'm curious. You have many good posts, but have a tendancy to go off the deep end at times. If you are going to go on tirades with your comments, either keep them there so all can see what you do, or apologize when you remove them.

Oh mine gott I have a personal stalker!!!!!

Damn Rambo will be impressed. Hey Yogi, you were once an Old Guard but you snapped and became a coward. Now do your stalker-duty and go back and read all of my 3000+ posts.

You're dismissed. </font>

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by Yogi:

Have no clue what you are talking about.

Lets face the facts sonny. You got called up could'nt stand the challenge and had to hide your cowardness by stalkin me to get even. Hell Diced Tomato at least made up some looney story about me going mad playing that super-player Masturbator but you just kept saying that Cheese Panzer were your friend and that all must obey Fartknocker or do a gangattack with Lucky Zebras on Desert Dave's house.

Well only chance you got to prove you ARE an old guard is play me in my battle of russia scenario or play Rambo. Otherwise you will be remembered as the Old Guard's Judas who betrayed the Icons and stalked Kuniworth becuase he was such a stud.

It's your call mister. If you can't stand the challenge you can leave your old guard uniform at Sailor Heaven's Pub, San Franciso Harbour. Ask for Immer Etwas.

[Desert Dave]

It's your call mister. If you can't stand the challenge you can leave your old guard uniform at Sailor Heaven's Pub, San Franciso Harbour. Ask for Immer Etwas.

Far better, Skando Kafka's K,

You'd inquire after that Cool Old Shade,

For ever known as Herb Caen,

Columnist for The SF Chronicle,

Circa '40s -> ~ '80s,

And inventor of "3-dot journalism," IE,

Liberal (... ooops! 'at 'er's some

nasty bad word these dis-honorable

days, I realize!)

Use of ellipses (...like... this...),

Not to mention the very first!

To use the term... "beatnik." :cool:

[... like most of the rest of the established

Comfortable Classes, he hadn't really ANY clue

of what he was talking about, in this

regard anyhow]

Who once mentioned that SF was like

A beautiful whore walking lamp lighted streets

All night in the fog & rain or,

Some such wry aptness.

Now,

I don't have the EXACT quote and really don't care

If I do wacka do, and won't

Be bothered, now, to search for it,

But,

There you have the essence,

Based on avid readings of 40 odd

Years ago.

Close enough!

I liked SF well enough in the late 60s,

Haight and People's Park and what-not, though

Moreso, I spent time in Big Sur & Sausalito,

Well, to each their own.

Lately, however, we have some true tremendous!

Hate-mongering, foul-lip Wrongo's

Plying the air waves, as, witness:

(... from a column authored by Joe Conason

in Salon.com)

__________________________________________________

July 14, 2006 | While Melanie Morgan debates with Ann Coulter about whether the executive editor of the New York Times should be killed by gas chamber or firing squad, the institutional forces behind the San Francisco radio host deserve to share in the national spotlight now focused on her. Morgan's brand of authoritarian extremism is brought to her radio listeners every day courtesy of the Disney Corp., which owns KSFO-AM -- a station that functions as a mouthpiece and fundraising mechanism for the Republican Party.

__________________________________________________

Innocent little Disney Corp!

Sponsoring, condoning such vile vitriol

And actual!

Callings for some Editor's head!

Imagine that there!

Why,

All them cute & spry cartoons and that

White Castle!

In Fairyland!

I usta watch as a kid, gee,

My... my.

Other matters:

No question. There are a number of people who talk about Dresden or the nuclear bombings without knowing what they are talking about, and I can understand why you'd find them annoying.

Well,

You done brung it up again,

Pointilleux Cognoscenti,

Whoso apparently espouses

Midwest sort of rolling-shoulder

Comedie Noire,

And so I say it once again:

As said in the past - ANYONE who bombs

Non-combatants,

With ANY kind of explosive, incendiary

Or other death-dealing device,

SHOULD be prosecuted as a war criminal,

NO exceptions.

I must ask you: how is it

That I don't know what

I am talking about? :confused:

How is it?

That YOU know what I do NOT know?

Or,

What I do ken or nary reckon?

Amazing! langoureux legerdemain,

All the way from hallow halls @ Chicago U

Clean down to the Sun-slammed high desert!

You know these things!

Can't quite get over that!

_________________________________________________

As for the rest:

1) Too many humans chasing fast diminishing

resources, at least, those... now KNOWN.

2) Too many War Profiteers,

My gut guess? More!

Than EVER before, here in America (... largest

supplier of annihilation devices

of any nation on earth)

And, in Europe & Asia & Arabia too.

Other places also - wherever stocks

And ill-begotten gains

Are traded for human sweat,

For... human life.

3) Ego-centric world views will inevitably

Lead to these sorts of selfish & avaricious Apprehensions.

4) Palestine deserves their own State, yep,

and this ends with a PERIOD.

5) Russia DID in fact suffer FAR more than any Other Nation in World War II, what's

The big argument?

Whyso or who deserves what

Doesn't change one essential thing.

Millions upon millions upon millions

Of humans died all over the damn place,

Which brings us to:

6) Approximately 30,000 deaths last year,

Minimally deduced,

Due to alcohol-related car accidents, which is, Incidentally - for all 'em claiming to value

ALL of life,

10 times! the number killed @ Twin Towers.

And so, just gotta ask?

Where the outrage there? :confused:

Or, RE: 100s' of thousands NOW starving to death

In them so-called 3rd World countries?

LOL, gotta laugh how SOME life, I'd gather,

Is worth MORE than other's lives,

Go figure.

Well,

Alcohol and tobacco are the single most Destructive drugs now on market.

Hey! Why are these legal?

And some other less offensive stuff,

Such as that recently derided "weed"

And peyote/mescaline and

"Ecstasy" and even, dreaded old "lsd"

Are illegal?

VERY strange law-makers we got,

Especially of late,

What with this spying by telecommunications

Corps, and 'em satellites in the sky

And the old fashioned way too!

RAT out!

Yer neighbor, LOLOLOL!

(... all them above mentioned drugs used within context of supervised and fully controlled religious or psychiatric purposes, but of course!)

**Now, how about them XXXX (... insert yer very own favorite Sports team!) this year!

Got 'em a good shot at the ultimately

Useless! title?

Though, as group catharsis, I suppose it's better

Than... waving around fists & personally

Preferred epistles and received histories,

Which,

As we certainly appreciate,

Have been LOST! Baby, lost,

In all them many & myriad (mis) translations!

LOL!

[Kuniworth]

To sum it up; you were a hippie in the 60's and now 40 years later you came to the conclusion that you think I'm a real stud?

[Desert Dave]

To sum it up; you were a hippie in the 60's and now 40 years later you came to the conclusion that you think I'm a real stud?

LOL, ah,

Kafka's K Redux,

Nah, I warn't no hippie.

Just a guy dropped out of college

While my pals were claiming 2S status,

So to become - first, a citizen soldier.

Then,

Iconoclast who never belonged

To ANY group larger than... 2.

The other most usually being,

One a' them beautiful whores

Who likes to walk in the rain.

See?

BTW, quit ragging me all to hell

About playing yer scenario,

It just ain't gonna happen.

I done told you I'd take you to school

On '39 Campaign once V 1.03 is released,

And, BTW,

Having tested it for awhile,

It ain't bad!

And, best - gonna get much much better

Too!

This I know! :cool:

[Kuniworth]

ah you see Desert Fox a la San Francisco sailor quarter customer Redux

My scenario is superior and you in the Dev team know it(may need some more playtesting)

If I were you I'd would try to convince Hubert to release it as a standard scenario in the next patch. It's so superior concerning OOB and all the other historical stuff.

[Liam]

Fart,

if the UN did it's job we wouldn't have to.

Just my 2 cents, they should all split the bill and more nations should be pushed into the UN and strengthen it. That is the job of the UN, solve world issues, resolve conflict and take care of the suffering in this world. All nations included even if the US one day should need to aided. Which will come inevitably

Originally posted by Fartknock3r:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Liam:

We've spent how many billions in an attempt to give them something beyond despotism? That's why gas is 3 -4 bucks a pop in the SouthEast and why we shall lose Social Security for our elderly, to give them a Free Society.. It's starting to get tedious, they don't want to be free bad enough. Look at the Isrealis, look what they've sacrificed for their freedom? Now that is a people I can actually admire..

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Fartknock3r:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Liam:

I think America should stuff the Iraqi Democracy up the Arabs asses along with every other Arab nation,

People should be able to choose there own government, right? </font>

[Liam]

Cary, very insightful our Government isn't Centered around the Presidency, so many foriegners get the wrong idea. It's centered around the Government on a whole, and it's interests.. Big Business does run this nation does it not? Otherwise Oil for Guns wouldn't be our policy

A Nation for the people or by the People blah blah blah... Oh, how our Founding Fathers would look poorly down upon us now, then again. They did march into Florida, that was in the interest of settlers in Georgia? Or in the interest of gaining another Colony? Who is righteous? I suppose in the end it doesn't matter. Might is Right and the lesser of the evils of the world is okay if we have to stand it? God I hate taking it up the rear.. Can't complain though I am not a Politician, wouldn't be hard to be one though, aye? Just sniff some coke and take about 4 years of school and be a good whoremugger.

Originally posted by Cary:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by aesopo:

... in comparison to the hundreds of billions we have squandered in Iraq. Who should answer for this debacle?

My humble, oh-so non-partisan opinion? Not who but what, and the answer is the Presidency.

The founding fathers rigged our system basically so a bad or mediocre president couldn't do too much damage. In general a pretty wise decision: democracy is, after all, the worst form of government except when you consider the alternatives. And, all said and done, I'm afraid both Clinton and Junior have done a lot to prove out that maxim.

Democrats from FDR through Johnson and then Nixon/Kissinger worked to re-rig the system to give the president a more decisive role in foreign policy. This may have been a good idea for the time, but it is inappropriate now -- decisions just don't need to be made as fast. And the system as it stands now gives any president way too much opportunity to foul things up.

(Sure, there's the "terrorist nuke in Baltimore" scenario, but we've got to be realistic, the best decision to be made there involves who goes in to clean up -- I hate to be so brutal, but we know from Katrina that the United States can survive the loss of one of its cities.) </font>

[Liam]

More people have starved to death, but that was 5 or 6 years... Tell the Pope to pass out condoms and sell that 150,000 dollar hat more people with die in Africa from unprotected sex in the next 25 years than in WW2 I'm certian of that

Originally posted by Ottosmops:

The losses of human lives in WW2 were certainly horrible.

But can you imagine that since 1945 there were probably more children killed by abortion then people died in WW2?

[xwormwood]

Originally posted by Liam:

More people have starved to death, but that was 5 or 6 years... Tell the Pope to pass out condoms and sell that 150,000 dollar hat more people with die in Africa from unprotected sex in the next 25 years than in WW2 I'm certian of that

Logical mistake. :cool:

these people don't use kondoms because they know nothing about aids and how this desease spreads.

Or they are simply to poor to buy some.

if they REALLY would listen to the pope or even better the bible they wouldn't have sex with someone who is not married (husband or wife) to them in the first place.

If they already ignore this fundamental message of the bible and the pope, why the hell would they give a rats ass about how the pope thinks about kondoms?

But i agree with you about all this gold, trasures and hats. Sell them to help the poor, Herr Ratzinger, and change the world through this.

[Liam]

Agreed Worm,

however breeding Christians? what about all the devoted Christians in Mexico though and South/Latin America?

[R.J.]

Originally posted by xwormwood:

But i agree with you about all this gold, trasures and hats. Sell them to help the poor, Herr Ratzinger, and change the world through this.

Sell it to whom? Rich industrialists who would simply raise the price of products and commodities to offset the capital expenditures on luxury goods? Money that would have better served the poor by being put into industrial expansion (i.e. creating jobs).

Meanwhile the world is poorer because priceless art treasures are now in private hands and not on public display. Wealth isn't created by a simple exchange of paper money and/or property. Wealth is created by investment, labour and human ingenuity. And I'm afraid that opinion is the typical fuzzy logic of socialism that kills investment and personal motivation that creates real wealth.

The other part of your post is spot on though.

Originally posted by Liam:

however breeding Christians? what about all the devoted Christians in Mexico though and South/Latin America?

"If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it." -Benjamin Franklin

[Cap]

They should just use the middle east as a nuclear testing ground!

Pave em all and let God sort them out!

[Fartknock3r]

Originally posted by Cap:

They should just use the middle east as a nuclear testing ground!

Pave em all and let God sort them out!

Whats so wrong with the people living in the middle east?