Treeburst155 Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 A typical Regular German squad, in command (no leadership bonuses), will behave as follows if given a 50 meter withdraw order toward the rear, through cover, with no enemy in sight, and not taking fire. It WILL immediately hit the dirt. It WILL immediately become at least Shaken, but will be in a Panic state the VAST majority of the time. Nevertheless, in no more than six seconds, it will respond to the withdraw order by turning and running for the rear. At the beginning of the next orders phase there is about a 40% chance it will be Pinned, and a 40% chance it will be OK. The other 20% of the time it will be Shaken, Cautious, or Alerted. Imagine what would happen if this squad were taking fire. It might go into suicide sneak mode. Treeburst155 out. [ November 04, 2002, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxx Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Thanks for the test info Treeburst. I've noticed a big difference using this command in CMBB from CMBO. When receiving fire the unit breaks nearly all the time. Your data (when not under fire) is aprreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 4, 2002 Author Share Posted November 4, 2002 The question in my mind now is when exactly the Withdraw order would be useful. If a unit is almost certain to break if he stays put, I guess that would be the time for the withdraw order. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 I have found that troops given a Withdraw order do usually follow it, though they tend to ALSO become Panicked (much as Treeburst found). I kind of like this mix - you can get them out, but you may not be able to get them to do anything else for a good long while. It's particularly nice for vehicle crews in Operations. Other than that, I rarely use Withdraw (though for what it's worth, I rarely used it in CMBO either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Right now, run and withdraw = dead, IMHO. Which is probably the way it should be. I use advance, or assault if its a short distance, to the rear to get my boys out of harm's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Disagree, run is extremely useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 4, 2002 Author Share Posted November 4, 2002 Veregeltungswaffe, LOL! Great idea! Hehe...gamey, but GREAT! Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Treeburst155: Veregeltungswaffe, LOL! Great idea! Hehe...gamey, but GREAT! Treeburst155 out.Heheh, that's not gamey, haven't you ever heard of an "Advance to the Rear"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabpub Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 As heard at "Frozen Chosun"..."Hell, no, we're not retreating!! We're just attacking in a different direction!" Name the Marine General for a Kewpie doll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by xerxes: Disagree, run is extremely useful.Well, in my experience, running under fire will garner you a high casualty rate. If you're just talking about hurrying somewhere that troops are needed but with a covered approach, then certainly it could be useful. Tiring, but useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Running is very handy in meeting engagements when you want to get to certain piece of terrain and setup before the enemy get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha_Field_Marshall Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 From my expirences tonight I will say that the withdraw order should be used in any situation where your forces are being overrun and you want them to live to fight another battle, like an operation. Withdraw is one order that squads will not hesitate to exicute, they turn tail and head for the hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by tabpub: As heard at "Frozen Chosun"..."Hell, no, we're not retreating!! We're just attacking in a different direction!" Name the Marine General for a Kewpie doll."Chesty" Puller. Should I send you instructions on where to send my doll? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 You see, that doesn't make sense. I can understand that withdrawn troops aren't going to be in good morale after running away but to have them panic or break makes no sense. If me and my comrades are getting suppressed by enemy fire and things are looking bleak, having my superior tell me to withdraw would be music to my ears. Why would I suddenly go into a panic or break? Furthermore, if I'm withdrawing my soldiers to fight again another day, it doesn't make sense that they would then break from that command. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the command? If I just wanted them to break, I'd leave them there to take more fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh: If me and my comrades are getting suppressed by enemy fire and things are looking bleak, having my superior tell me to withdraw would be music to my ears. Why would I suddenly go into a panic or break?You may be misinterpreting what that state is intended to model, at least in this case. I don't think that "panicked" means that the troops are in a state of hysteria so much as that due to the hastiness of the order and their execution of it, they are presently in a disorganized condition and it will take a minute or two to get them straightened out and functioning as a unit again. Which would seem quite reasonable to me. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh: If me and my comrades are getting suppressed by enemy fire and things are looking bleak, having my superior tell me to withdraw would be music to my ears. Why would I suddenly go into a panic or break?You may be misinterpreting what that state is intended to model, at least in this case. I don't think that "panicked" means that the troops are in a state of hysteria so much as that due to the hastiness of the order and their execution of it, they are presently in a disorganized condition and it will take a minute or two to get them straightened out and functioning as a unit again. Which would seem quite reasonable to me. Michael</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Treeburst, is there some point you're after making, or do sudden observances just burst out of you randomly, Da Vinci like, as you piss around with the works in a random manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxx Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Seanachai: Treeburst, is there some point you're after making, or do sudden observances just burst out of you randomly, Da Vinci like, as you piss around with the works in a random manner?Best to cap that tube of glue and open a window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Maxx: Best to cap that tube of glue and open a window.Bah! He's had so much fun spending several hundred man-hours proving the AI doesn't cheat that he's gone mad, and started testing random things for no apparent reason at all, and with no conclusions drawn from it. Anyone can toss out an observance like a lump of meat and then stand back to see if it'll be swarmed by jackals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Seanachai: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh: If me and my comrades are getting suppressed by enemy fire and things are looking bleak, having my superior tell me to withdraw would be music to my ears. Why would I suddenly go into a panic or break?You may be misinterpreting what that state is intended to model, at least in this case. I don't think that "panicked" means that the troops are in a state of hysteria so much as that due to the hastiness of the order and their execution of it, they are presently in a disorganized condition and it will take a minute or two to get them straightened out and functioning as a unit again. Which would seem quite reasonable to me. Michael</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh: Is this your idea of playfulness, Seanachai? Or are you just being a jerk?Always with the negative waves, Deadmarsh! I could, of course, answer that being a jerk is my idea of playfulness. But mainly, I'm just trying to sort out where you're coming from these days. You seem so uptight, so bitter. So unwilling to actually learn. It's so unlike you. I worry about you, lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh: If me and my comrades are getting suppressed by enemy fire and things are looking bleak, having my superior tell me to withdraw would be music to my ears. Why would I suddenly go into a panic or break?You may be misinterpreting what that state is intended to model, at least in this case. I don't think that "panicked" means that the troops are in a state of hysteria so much as that due to the hastiness of the order and their execution of it, they are presently in a disorganized condition and it will take a minute or two to get them straightened out and functioning as a unit again. Which would seem quite reasonable to me. Michael</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tabpub: As heard at "Frozen Chosun"..."Hell, no, we're not retreating!! We're just attacking in a different direction!" Name the Marine General for a Kewpie doll."Chesty" Puller. Should I send you instructions on where to send my doll? Michael</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Seanachai: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh: Is this your idea of playfulness, Seanachai? Or are you just being a jerk?Always with the negative waves, Deadmarsh! I could, of course, answer that being a jerk is my idea of playfulness. But mainly, I'm just trying to sort out where you're coming from these days. You seem so uptight, so bitter. So unwilling to actually learn. It's so unlike you. I worry about you, lad.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabpub Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Gyrene: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tabpub: As heard at "Frozen Chosun"..."Hell, no, we're not retreating!! We're just attacking in a different direction!" Name the Marine General for a Kewpie doll."Chesty" Puller. Should I send you instructions on where to send my doll? Michael</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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