Magic at war (dummy tanks)

[Saddam_#24]

Just saw a program on chanell 4 about the allies using illusions during WW2. There was stuff about fake cities to confuse bombers, as well as searchlights with lenses to make a rotating light cone so enemy pilots couldn't see their targets.

The interesting bit though was about jeeps being disguised as tanks using plywood. Appearently they were done really realisticly. They even made trails just like a real tank and fired blank rounds from their "cannons." You had to be within a few metres to tell the difference.

Another thing they did was make tanks look like trucks. The tanks could drob their truck disguise so they could fire their weapons in just a few seconds!!!

I think someone really should make the disguised jeeps/tanks as an addon for CMBO. Just by making them a definate sherman (for instance) contact. Without any question marks. Until you have troops within literally 20 metres.

Thanks for listening

[Echo]

Being a professional magician myself, I admire Jasper Masqueline, the [then] world famous British magician who fooled the hell out of the Germans in North Africa. He actualy moved the entire Suez Canal, by lighting up the desert, and blacking out the coasts, fooling any air action by night.

He also built a dummy army far to the flank of an attack on Tobruk, fooling German air recon as to the army groups true disposition.

[Juju]

Originally posted by Echo:

Being a professional magician myself, I admire Jasper Masqueline, the [then] world famous British magician who fooled the hell out of the Germans in North Africa. He actualy moved the entire Suez Canal, by lighting up the desert, and blacking out the coasts, fooling any air action by night.

He also built a dummy army far to the flank of an attack on Tobruk, fooling German air recon as to the army groups true disposition.

Ehm, you're kidding, right?

[lcm1947]

Yeah I remember reading about that.

[Michael Emrys]

Perhaps the greatest sleight of hand trick of the whole war was Operation Bodyguard, which convinced the Germans of what they already believed, namely that the Allies intended to land at the Pas de Calais.

This involved much more than I can go into here, but it included the creation of entire notional armies through the use of such things as signals deception and inflatable tanks and other vehicles. It was probably the most elaborate and extensive hoaxes of all history and one of the greatest triumphs of the Allies.

Michael

[Soddball]

Maskelyene did use mirrors and searchlights to disguise the location of the Suez canal.

See this link for some interesting details.

[Dave H]

Originally posted by Soddball:

Maskelyene did use mirrors and searchlights to disguise the location of the Suez canal.

See this link for some interesting details.

So according to the link, this is the guy who invented coin-operated doors in restrooms? I'd say that just about cancels out any good he did during the war!! :mad:

[Snake Eyes]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

Perhaps the greatest sleight of hand trick of the whole war was Operation Bodyguard, which convinced the Germans of what they already believed, namely that the Allies intended to land at the Pas de Calais.

This involved much more than I can go into here, but it included the creation of entire notional armies through the use of such things as signals deception and inflatable tanks and other vehicles. It was probably the most elaborate and extensive hoaxes of all history and one of the greatest triumphs of the Allies.

Michael

...and George Patton was the commander of this fake army.

[Stixx]

Originally posted by Snake Eyes:

and George Patton was the commander of this fake army.

That is fact!.

Patton had been given a slap on the wrists for his slapping of a "Battle fatigued" soldier in a hospital. At the launch of Overlord Patton commanded the biggest force "On Paper" but not a single unit under his actual command.

That is a great counter-intel plan, the allies do need credit for that!.

[Grisha]

Deception, simulation, disinformation was a normal part of Soviet military operations from 1943 on. Fake vehicles or installations, diversionary marches and operations, clandestine night marches under strict night discipline, radio discipline combined with bogus radio networks, fake artillery registration. It encompassed all levels of Soviet military art, from the tactical through the operational to the strategic. In Glantz' book on Soviet military deception in WWII he covers more than 40 military operations which used extensive deception. The fact is deception (and intelligence/reconnaissance) was as important - and effective - to the Soviets in WWII as command control & versatility was to Germany/USA/UK.

[ June 28, 2002, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Grisha ]

[Saddam_#24]

He did come up with the searchlights which made a cone of rotating light go arround enemy bombers. But there's no proof it was particularly effective. Don't go thinking Maskerline was a complete hero. All the proof we have is what he wrote in his autobiography. And loads of specialists in the war wrote books like that also claiming they "single handedly won operation overlord" or something. They always make themselves seem loads more important than they really were. Maskerlines military career ended in 1942, so for the last three years of the war he was ignored. Basically he can't have been nearly as great as people say he was.

But the point of this thread is that we really need some of those dummy tanks and tanks described as trucks in CMBO. So who's good at making addons? If you are then do this. Please.

Thanks

[Joshik]

If you are interested in this topic, there is a book by Jack Kneece called "Ghost Army of World War II":

Ghost Army

I RELUCTANTLY reccommend this book, because the writing is HORRIBLE (check some of the Amazon reviews). However, the story is so interesting, it makes up for the crappy writing style. Actually, it's not the writing so much as the lack of editing- this book really reads like a rough draft.

Still, the stories of the 23rd HQ Special Troops are quite remarkable. Bill Blass getting his start as a camoflauge artist, rubber Sherman turrets in danger of floating away, etc...

Interesting read...

-Joshik

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Snake Eyes:

...and George Patton was the commander of this fake army.

He was commander of one of them, specifically the First US Army Group (FUSAG). Early on, this actually contained some real units, which helped reinforce the fiction. As D-Day approached, these units were moved into their assembly areas and subordinated to their true command structure, but they often left their signalers behind to maintain fake signal traffic.

This tactic was also employed by the British. For several years it had been a lingering idea of Churchill's to liberate Norway and a task force for this purpose had been established in Scotland. I think this was corps-sized but provision was made to bring it up to army strength in the event that the operation was actually launched. When it became clear that Overlord was to be the plan and the units involved in the Norway venture were reassigned to it, they nevertheless were allowed to remain in Scotland for a while, where the Germans were allowed to "discover" them. As they moved south to their assembly areas prior to the invasion, they too left their signalers behind to fabricate fake traffic. This and other "clues" planted by British Intelligence had the Germans convinced that this was a real threat. For this and other reasons, at the end of the war there were several divisions left in Norway, including a complete Panzer division, all defending against a threat that mostly existed only in their imaginations.

Michael