out of curiousity--what do you use?

[Yosoce]

Ive played a couple PBEM games, but mostly been stuck playing Mom (AI) through sheer laziness, and I was wondering what kind of force compositions people commonly use? Im not asking for a historical order of battle, just what kind of things are common for say, a 700 pt combined arm force, any type.

Personally, I tend towards an all purpose plain vanilla Company of either Heer or British regulars backed up by a tank or two and a few HTs plus a 75 or 81mm barrage.

[gredeker]

I tend to avoid plain rifle platoons, as their firepower is usually deficient. As Germans, I go for any squad that has two LMGs (the motorized infantry being my favorite). As allies, American rifle platoons are fine, but the British platoons pretty much suck except for the paratroops. Call me gamey if you will, but it's what I tend to use.

For support, I generally buy a few more machine guns, a few more bazookas or schrecks, one 75 or 81mm arty battery, then some SPs and tank destroyers. For some reason, I tend to use them better than regular tanks.

That's my $0.02.

[Warmaker]

I tend towards the armor force selection. Usually a Tiger I (I still love Tiger Is, even though they're not "invincible" in CMBO) or Panther with a Pz.Grenadier platoon & HMG42 team to boot, all at veteran level and are all Waffen SS (I don't like greenies). Any other units to add depends on my how moody I feel that time or the setting, i.e.defensive, offensive, etc.

Some of my favorite additions:

* Can't go wrong with another infantry platoon, esp. Pz.Grenadiers.

* Jagdpanzer IV/70 or Panzer IV/70. Killer guns, sloped frontal armor. 'nuff said.

* StuH'42 for infantry bashing, though a Tiger's 88mm kind of negates this necessity to a degree.

* Panzerschrecks and Puppchens.

* 81mm FO.

* PaK40 75mm (one of the best all around ATGs in the game IMO) and PaK38 50mm ATGs (Stuart killers).

* More of the best MGs of the war... MG42s. Another HMG42 team for some raw firepower.

* 37mm FlaK. Infantry killing/suppressing firepower and more than enough to kill "lights" like HTs and some AFVs with flank/rear shots.

* Sturmkompanie! Whenever I play Heer, I love these guys!

[Peaveyyyyyyyy]

One nice trick is to use a completely armour-free force, especially in Attacks.

The defender will certainly have bought AT guns or armour, and these assets may have little in the way of decent targets. The defender will likely wait till he can see your tanks before exposing these. By the time he realises you haven't any, your grunts are right amongst his front lines. Still pick some Arty, cos you'll need it to suppress or smoke his infantry while you rush his position. The Axis is best for this, cos the Panzerfaust is effective and organic to most squads. Once most of the defending grunts have been beaten up (You'll have overwhelming numbers due to attacker bonuses and no points spent on tanks), then you can hunt his tanks, if you need to.

[CombinedArms]

One reason--aside from laziness-- I haven't yet ventured into the PBEM/QB world is that it all seems to come down to force selection. If you guess right, you've got a force your opponent isn't equipped to counteract. If you guess wrong, you lose because your opponent has figured out a force that you can't deal with. I've been a little reluctant to climb into that whole nest of issues. Plus, I'm into history and prefer to play with and against forces similar to those that actually existed in WWII. I don't mind that other people approach things differently, of course. Just my preference.

Does anyone out there like to play pre-existing scenarios PBEM? Maybe I should give that a try.

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[Blackcat]

"Does anyone out there like to play pre-existing scenarios PBEM? Maybe I should give that a try."

Yup, and for me this is the best way to enjoy the game. Dop me a line if you fancy giving it a go.

Cheers

[Chad Harrison]

im my PBEM/TCP experience there is ofcourse no winning combination that will tackle any opponet. what determins greatly what i bring along (when its my choice) is the terrain. i dont think i need to go into that any further, thats all pretty common sense (ie; a sherman 75 in open terrain is asking for trouble, as are soldiers on foot).

just some points to make about certain purchases:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>-M4 Sherman 75mm. for 117 points these suckers are a treasure. you get 60+ HE rounds and lots of MG's. they can go easily toe to toe with the mark IV. the key is to keep these guys safe and hidden until the right times. they can rout strong defenders in a turn!

<LI>-Greyhound/ PSW 234/3. these come for 73pts and 66pts respectively. dont underestimate either one of these guys. in a TCP game over the weekend, my opponet brought in a sherman heavy group. i didnt have many tanks, but i had two 234/3's. i had one of them scurry up to 50m within one sherman and it blasted it with its 75mm HEAT round! then the hero of the day. his firefly was being a pain and i had managed to immobilize it. then my PSW 234/3 came up and hit the sucker from 500m and KO'd him out on that first shot! dont leave home without one.

<LI>-MG's. dont ever forget to buy some MG's. the american heavy water cooled MG is cheap and has lots of rounds. the german heavy MG's are priceless also.

<LI>-ive had good succes with buying 1 close combat platoon for every vanilla one. so one american glider for every normal one. the nice thing about the glider troops is that they bring in the .50cal and 60mm mortar at cheaper prices! just dont buy all heavy german SMG squads. thats just straight gamey.

<LI>-recently i have learned that artillery can be a mixed blessing. its expensive, and not always worth it. for me, it costed so much, that i do not want to waste it. so i wait for the perfect artillery moment, and that moment never comes. for the same points you could get another sherman/mark IV, extra platoon ect. so if its going to be a city fight, are those 81mm mortars really going to be WORTH it?

<LI>-ther german SP guns also bring in big bangs for little bucks. i have grown to love the wespe. for only 58 points you get that 105mm howitzer with around 30 HE rounds. yes they are vulnerable, but so is everything else on the battlefield! dont dismiss vehicles because of their low armour. just be smarter with them.

<LI>-my last tid bit of advice. you know that panther VG is awesome on the front and could lick any sherman out there! it also has a price tag of 199 points. if you play him good, he can devastate the enemy! if your sloppy or your opponet is good, he will brew up just like every other tank. for 199 points, you could get 3 armored cars which can be three places at once for that much. is it worth it?

most of all, learn from your mistakes! after every battle i look at what happened to my men and see what went good and what went bad. not just tactics, but what UNITS did good? do i see a pattern from previous battles? and i also do the same for my opponet!

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: Chad Harrison ]

[tecumseh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yosoce:

a 700 pt combined arm force, any type.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If my life depended on the win:

At 700 points I would definately request Axis and buy a 120mm mortar spotter, light guns and infantry. If i felt like armour i would buy the StuH42. No vehicles.

As allies the dilemma for me would be American or British. Americans can not field big arty for 700pt CA, but british infantry is weak, and weighed down by additional crap.

i'd either take British centered around a cromwell IV and arty, or american infantry massed and supported by M8s. In either case i would buy a cheap MG recon vehicle too.

The obvious thing to avoid would be powerful AT stuff, because there will be no big tanks.

Otherwise, for fun, I'd just take computer picks or try something new. Like some rockets, volksturm and a veteran hotchkiss

[Warmaker]

Watch for those rockets... even the "small" 150mm German rockets can be pretty wild. And quite hurtful in their randomness... this was from personal experience unfortunately.

[Holien]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CombinedArms:

One reason--aside from laziness-- I haven't yet ventured into the PBEM/QB world is that it all seems to come down to force selection. If you guess right, you've got a force your opponent isn't equipped to counteract. If you guess wrong, you lose because your opponent has figured out a force that you can't deal with. I've been a little reluctant to climb into that whole nest of issues. Plus, I'm into history and prefer to play with and against forces similar to those that actually existed in WWII. I don't mind that other people approach things differently, of course. Just my preference.

Does anyone out there like to play pre-existing scenarios PBEM? Maybe I should give that a try.

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

I am into the Ladder thang with T house and I agree, the force pick stage can be where you lose the battle.

I still do the "cherry pick" routine and make use of the Set-ups used for the last tournament with the bidding process. I would recommend that to people who want to try and get a balanced game. Some thought has gone into those Tourney games and the bidding process helps. Here is the link :-

http://tournamenthouse.com/tourney/CM/rounds.htm

However, more and more I use scenarios and just lately started playing some OPs. I have not played many against the AI as I prefer humans and playing the games blind.

The best games so far have been the scenarios against someone blind. They give you a "realistic situation" where you have to work with what the scenario designer has given you.

Mind you saying that I have just got into two Ops. TF Butler with Lars and Herrlisheim - Cut Off with Murray. Both of those are testing me in new directions. The TF Butler map is huge and looks like it is going to be fun.

No cherry picking and a whole lot of fun if you can trust your opponent not to sneak a preview. (Which so far I have been blessed with my great opponents.)

The Byte size games at Der Kessel are a great idea, although the one I played yesterday with Rett (Bocage to St Lo) seemed a bit biased to the Germans. Again the guys have put thought into trying to make an entertaining map with pre-selected forces.

http://www.derkessel.de/

If you want a PBEM I have slots free and will play a pre made game blind.

U can reach me on Holien@BTinternet.com

Cheers

H

[Fieldmarshall]

Love tank destroyers as the Germans...cheap, usefull and well armored...:Jagdpanthers, StuG IV, StuG IIIG mostly are my favorites..Panther VG I love aswell, and who doesnt like 300mm Volkswerfer/Nebelwerfer Rockets eh?

-Fielmarshall

[boy_Recon]

as the Axis, vet smgs and vet Hetzer's plus a few frills and flim-flams depending on how i feel. hetzers are probably the best value for money going. SMG squads have poor long range fire power, but when do you ever get into an inf fire fight over 200m?

As the allies, the Churchill VIII/Wasp/Airborne combo works pretty well. All vets again as the Churchill doesn't get tungsten on reg. keep the wasps well back until you know where the enemy is.

Gamey as hell, but it works for me.

[xerxes]

If you want to avoid gamey unit selection and gamey rules negotiation just use 1 rule.

1. Comp picks.

If you do this with low quality troops it's really a great game. Infantry rushes are MUCH less effective, you have to plan things out more, and artillery is scary. Greenies break and run easily.

-xerxes

[ryddle]

I've been playing at Rugged-Defense in their ladder. I've played roughly 10 games there and I have never really run across anyone who goes the gamey selection route. For most, I found that when you approach them for a game, you spend several days via e-mail hashing through the force selection params.

(i.e. Short-75, single branch of armed forces, no flakwagons, etc.)

http://www.rugged-defense.nl/cm/cm.htm

For myself, I'm not sure what makes a force selection a-historical, I usually like to buy the larger organic units (e.g. batallions) and augment with armour and arty.

fwiw,

-R

[JasonC]

It is a fine question, and I am somewhat disappointed at the gamey cherry picking in all the responses. Having some choice of the force allows for more realistic, balanced mixes, compared to computer picked. And computer picked has another hazard with small force levels - not using up all the points because of the "lumpiness" of items in each category.

For historically minded, here are some sample 700 pt forces for particular types, US and German (Brits aren't my thing). I am assuming meeting engagements, thus there are no fortifications, TRPs, etc. I also assume any force type can be up against any other, thus an "infantry" one is not tailored to fight infantry in particular, etc. Also, I assume regulars for most forces, vets rare - by mutual understanding. (All forces listed are regs unless noted).

US infantry (straight infantry) -

1 infantry company

1 81mm FO

2 added zooks

2 add MMG

Simple but not effective against tanks.

US combined arms (infantry, TDs, and scouts) -

2 M-10 TDs

2 rifle platoons

2 zooks

1 M-8 armored car

2 M-20 armored car

variant - jeep MGs instead of M-20s, add a third zook. More realistic but less effective in CM.

US armor (armor battalion force) -

3-4 Shermans, at least 1 76mm

1-2 rifle platoons

added support weapons, no FOs.

E.g. Jumbo 75, M4A3(76), 2 M4, 1 platoon

or M4A3(76), 2 M4A3, 2 plt, 2 zook, 1 60mm

or 2 76 and 2 75, 1 plt.

or Jumbo 76, 2 Easy 8, 1 plt w/ zook, MMG.

You get the idea.

US Mech (a cavalry force) -

start with

2 M-8

2 platoons each with zook and 60mm mortar

1 75mm FO

round off with either -

3rd platoon with zook and mortar

or 3rd M-8, added zooks (2-3) and MMGs (2-3)

or 2-3 M3A1 scout cars, 2-4 M-20s, or 2-4 jeep MG, leftovers on added teams.

For the Germans, try these -

Infantry (VG with guns)

Start with -

VG company

4th VG rifle platoon

3 HMG

1 81mm FO

then add a variable AT/gun component, one of the following -

2x75mm PAK, upgrade HMGs to "vet"

or 1x75mm PAK, 3xVet schreck

or 1x88mm FLAK (vet), 2xReg schrek

or 2xschreck, 2x81mm mortar, 2xpuppchen

or 1x88mm FLAK, 2x75mm SiG

or 1x150mm SiG, 2xVet schreck

or 5th plt VG SMG, 2xVet schreck

For a combined arms force, try one of these -

FJ company

2 HMG

1 Vet StuG III (late)

or

2xPz Gdr platoon

2xHMG

2xschreck

1xPz IV

2xSPW 251/9 (75mm)

1x120mm FO

For armor, try one of these -

1 Vet Pz IV

3 Reg Pz IV

1 PzGdr platoon

1 81mm FO

or

2 Panther

2 Pz Gdr platoon

2 schreck

or

1 vet Tiger I

1 reg Tiger I

1 vet SPW-251/1 (MG)

1 reg SPW-251/1 (MG)

1 vet Pz Gdr platoon

1 vet schreck

German mech (a recon battalion force)

2 PSW-234/1 20mm AC

2 SPW-251/9 75mm HT

2 PzGdr Platoon

2 HMG

2 schreck

1 81mm FO

Buy a sharpshooter with the leftovers, or upgrade the AC to Pumas, or the HTs to PSW-234/3 75mm AC, if you don't think either is too unrealistic.

For what it is worth...

[Stalin's Organ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by boy_Recon:

As the allies, the Churchill VIII/Wasp/Airborne combo works pretty well. All vets again as the Churchill doesn't get tungsten on reg. keep the wasps well back until you know where the enemy is.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Churchills never get Tungsten!! It doesn't exist for the 75 or 95mm!

appart from that if you've read teh thread on armour with airborne churchills + Brit Airborne is a perfectly reasonable mix.