Tips on attacking with Armor against Armor

[olandt]

Hi,

I'm new to the game, but I've played enough times to recognize my weakness. I can't seem to figure out how to attack with armor. (All of this is against the computer) Defending vs the computer is a sinch unless I really give it lots of extra untis. I'm fine attacking with infantry, but I can't get my shermans to live long enough versus german armor. Part of this has to be due to my inexperience with recon, and my tendency for aggresive action (which seems to work well for the infantry, just not the tanks). I'ld appreciate any advise or links to good attack faqs.

Thanks

Pete

:confused:

[Redwolf]

First thing is you need to raise the hit chances as much as you can.

If the opponent moves in with 5 tanks and you have two, then -given equal guns and vehicles size for a basic chance-, his overall hit chance is much higher.

Get precise guns, 75mm L/48, U.S. 76mm, 17 pdr or even the 75mm L/70. Avoid the allied 75mm and HC-firing vehicles, as their hit chance is much lower. On small maps (1000 points battle and detault settings) the 88mm L/71 is overkill.

Get veteran or better crews for the better hit chance.

If you can have more than one tank, get identical tanks or at least tanks with identical guns and do not seperate them. When one of them moves into LOS of an enemy vehicle, the other must follow into LOS of the same target before the first shots fall.

Always hide behind cover and only come out so that you sneak at one and onloy one enemy vehicle, but when you do, do it with as many guns/vehicles as you can. Always move out when the enemy vehicle is spotted and you could set a manual "target" order to it.

Overall, the defensive strategy depends on your scheme what to do against light and heavy tanks.

Many people buy many light towed guns and one big gun vehicle as an insurance against heavy tanks. That is usually best when you expect the opponent to roll in with lots of lighter HE-firing vehicles. Of course, that may not be the case and then the other way round may be better, lots of light vehicles and some decent AT guns.

The most important point is the one about not seperating vehicles. Use concentration.

[Gremlin]

You may find some useful tips in these articles:

http://www.combat-missions.net/bootcamp/bootcamp.htm

[Mr. Johnson--]

Concentration, Concentration, Concentration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have 5 tanks, and use them as one tank. But if the enemy has 5 hidden AT guns, expect to lose. So make sure your infantry or arty can take out some of those AT guns. 5 tanks firing at one or 2 AT guns is a good thing for you.

[Redwolf]

Aehm, for my above post, I managed to misread the question that you are defending.

Of course, my post makes sense if you read it to counter wht I said the defender might do

Especially, if you are approaching a corner that an opponent tank may use to stick its nose out to hit you, you should have moved in with several tanks, all simultaneously into LOS.

If you play allies and have howitzer or 75mm tanks, then try to get combat range belong 500m.

I wonder why you are worrying about the defending tanks most. I usually have most problems with hidden guns.

[CombinedArms]

The question was specifically about attacking with Shermans and the problem is the Sherman's short life span on the attack. The care and feeding of Shermans is an art in itself, IMHO, and requires a somewhat unique set of tactics. Shermans are great anti-infantry tanks once the enemy armor is done for (3MGs and good, plentiful HE in the 75mm gun) but they have comparatively weak frontal armor. The key in my opinion to attacking with Shermans is to recognize how easily penetrated their armor is by a plethora of enemy guns--basically anything 50mm on up, and thus to handle them very cagily. As much as possible keep your infantry in front and your Shermans behind the cover of buildings, trees or hills. As enemy AT guns are disclosed, attack them with arty, mortars, or close infantry assault. Hit AT guns with Shermans only if they are well surpressed or if the AT guns surprise you and you have no choice. Attack Panthers and Tigers only from the flank or rear. You can take on PzIVs and Stugs, Marders, Hummels, Wespes and such from the front. Sherm 76s have a better AT gun, but flank shots on heavy armor are still preferred. Keeping Sherms covered vs. armor while hitting their infantry till you get the right flank shot is part of the art.

I'm not sure I agree with the principle of concentrating Shermans. I suggest that it's often a good idea to spread them out so that one or more will have a flank shot on heavy German AFVs. Two Sherms firing on a Panther's flanks from different angles is the way to go whenever possible. Use your attacking infantry to lure the enemy heavy armor out, then pounce on their flanks with your Shermans.

Sherm's fight best against tanks if you have a few Sherm 76s or Tank Destroyers (M-10s, Hellcats, Jacksons) that have better AT guns to help you out. The key thing to remember is that a living Sherman can be a great killing machine, but a dead Sherman--and they get dead real easy--can't do anything for you. So work hard to keep them alive--think of that as one of your central tasks-- and try to end the scenario as the one with the living tanks, even if you have to attack carefully and methodically.

[Mlapanzer]

fast move ,cover and flanks. really quite simple to state but an art to get right. Oh yea and spot those AT guns and kill them. :mad:

---------

it's good to be at the top of the food chain.

[Sun Tzu]

Shermans need to move to be effective. They work best in groups of two with one in a hull down postion while the other advances. As soon as you make contact with German armor use your infantry, which should always be infront of a Sherman, to clear an area to get one of the Shermans to the flank of the German tank to take it out. The other Sherman should be hunting forward out of cover and reversing back into it. The second Sherman is the bait to keep the tanks attention while the other one kills it. To get some experance set up a QB with light hills and moderate tree cover. Let the Germans have 4 MarkIVs and take 8 Shermans, either 75's or 76's. Use the cover and move listed above to take out the German tanks.

[Silvio Manuel]

Its very helpful to fire on any enemy AFV from two different angles at once- this will increase the hit % since 1 section should have a side aspect, and also enable you to hit the enemy tank's flank armor.

81mm mortar FO's can provide fast smoke screens for you advance your Shermans behind, or rather to lay smoke directly in front of enemy tanks.

Don't let your tanks get isolated- use pairs and such or have them covering each other- leapfrog 1 or more ahead with others behind a ridge "hunting" ahead and reversing down to shoot at enemies. This is VERY important if you play as the Germans with lighter armor (pzrIVs, stuG, marder, etc) because the Germs don't have gyrostabilizers and fire POORLY on the move. Some allied tanks to have G/S (some Shermans do, IIRC) and can fast move and sharpshoot at the same time.

[ February 26, 2002, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]

[JasonC]

There are two key issues attacking with Shermans. The first is elementary, that you do not attack with Shermans by physically moving them onto the places you are trying to take over, but instead by getting LOS to the locations. This involves an entirely different way of looking at terrain and cover than infantry fighting involves. The second is teamwork with other arms and between tanks. Each lone tank can only do a few easy things, but working together they can accomplish far more than just adding those solo achievements up.

First the "taking" and "terrain" stuff. First the way it is for infantry, then the differences.

Infantry takes things by sitting on them, because infantry firepower rises very rapidly as the range drops to zero. It also exploits the fact that it can go anywhere, making the interior of bodies of cover a pretty safe place with lots of options, from moving to this side of cover or that. And infantry benefits from cover in a simple way - it gets a cover bonus mechanically from just being in cover. So with infantry, all you have to do is figure out where to go, and go there while using cover.

But on the scale of CM, tank firepower does not appreciably change with range. HE is accurate at anything the tank can see, penetration against enemy armor is mostly a function of enemy facing (front or flank), occasionally of ammo used, but rarely changes significantly with range. Tank MGs have decent firepower at all ranges, and they generally have enough ammo to blast away from a fair distance and still do damage from the cumulative effect.

And tanks do not go everywhere, or benefit from cover primarily from being inside it. Generally they move through open ground only, and the significance of cover is its LOS effects, and secondarily hull down effects from stone walls or being behind rises. Thus for tanks it is almost always a matter of being -behind- this or that cover, not in it.

So, summing up, you are behind not in cover, you don't go everywhere, and you don't need to get close to things. But angles to things matter, what everybody can see matters, hull down matters. Which means you should look at the map not in terms of patches of ground that infantry can live in (cover), but in terms of -areas- of -sighting-. You look at the open areas, not the "cover holes" between them, and think in terms of the "fields" or "ridges" you "own" because your guys can -see- them, not because you are -on- them.

Now, the way you attack with armor is to "walk" those sighted areas into the enemy position, one step at a time. First, a bunch of your tanks and other units can see field A. Some defenders may be there - if so, you shoot the heck out of them, many on few. They are neutralized or pull back. Only then do you advance, not even to get into field A, but in order to -see- the next position, field B, wherever that is.

Because the issue is sighting and control by fire, their is no reason for the tanks to go first. The infantry scouts ahead for the tanks - it is the first to "peep" into field A, for example. That will identify enemy vehicles actually in that area. Infantry teams and FOs can also set up "overwatch", in order to suppress any enemy guns that fire when your tanks look into the field.

What you do not expect the infantry and its supporting teams to be able to do, is kill tanks in a given field, or destroy or drive off all the enemy infantry that might line it on this or that side. All they have to do with those is -spot- them. Then the tanks kill them, or force them to withdraw to avoid that.

The tanks do this not by movement into the field, but by fire into it. They creep to spots with LOS to particular parts of the field - peek around a corner of house or woodline, creep over a ridge. The goal is always many-on-few -differential- sighting. Meaning, all your guns bear on just a few units of the enemy, which you then outshoot, before moving to the next.

Against thick-fronted German armor, like Panthers and Tigers, special additional tactics are necessary. These come in a variety of forms, but the three basic ideas are (1) a special shooter, (2) flank shots via seperation or closing, and (3) distraction or rapid engagements.

Special shooters are the simplest case. You want some TDs - M-10, Hellcat, or Jacksons - or upgunned 76mm Shermans.

T ammo (tungsten core, hyper-velocity armor piercing ammo) is the clearest case, e.g. when you have one tank with 5 or 6 rounds of it, thus likely to use it on a heavily armored target right away. The key issue with specialty ammo use is having a -complete- ID of the target vehicle. Not "tank?", not even "Tiger?". No question marks. Until you have sighting without a question mark, do not risk a shooter with all your T ammo. The crew will use the right ammo, but only if they know -for certain- what they are shooting at, and thus that they need it.

Know the capabilities of the gun you are using, and the enemy vehicle. You can see stats on either by selecting the unit and hitting return. Remember also that enemy armor is often not full quality, so e.g. a Panther turret may well be penetrable, because of only 85% quality, when the raw numbers would suggest otherwise.

In general, the 76mm and better guns on improved shooters will kill -anything- with a flank shot using normal AP, provided the "side angle" to the target isn't too steep. StuGs and Panzer IVs and such, the front armor is no problem regardless of the shooter. Intermediate cases like Jadgpanzer and Hetzer fronts can often be handled by any improved gun, where a plain 75mm Sherman would not do the trick. In more heavily armored front shot cases, T ammo or a 90mm gun will often by the difference between killable and not. Do not guess. If you must, fire up a seperate test game and check the stats.

Achieving flank shots is done through two general means, seperation and closing. The seperation idea is simply that an enemy tank cannot present its front armor to two widely seperated locations at once. If a German tank is in the middle of the map, and you have tanks along each edge with LOS, he cannot face both at once. One or the other will get a flank shot.

Seperation alone will not ensure flank shots because the other guy has the expedient of cover, or use of "keyhole" sighting. That means he picks a spot from which the LOS is long only in one direction, while on the sides it is blocked nearby by buildings, woods, or higher ground. This limits the area of danger for you, but presents only his front armor. To counter keyhole use of cover, you have to suppliment the seperation idea with the closing idea.

In its simplest form, the idea of closing is simply that the angular seperation of your tanks increases as the range to the enemy drops, if the distance between your tanks stays about the same. If the enemy is 2000 meters away, your whole line might be in a 30 degree cone from the direction he is facing. But get alongside of him, and that will widen out to 180 degrees.

Enemy keyhole positions are vunerable to closing because they give up wide fields of fire, which means some places will be uncovered. In the extreme case, you run clear around the building the enemy tank is hiding beside, staying out of his LOS the whole time, because the very building that is protecting his flank prevents him from seeing you. Smoking one location will often let you through an "overlapping" set of "keyhole lines" from several enemies, too.

The third idea is distraction and rapid engagements, which exploit the generally slower turrets (or complete lack of them in the case of TDs) on the German side, compared to fast US turrets and gyrostabilizers to improve shooting while on the move. Again the enemy can't face two directions, but now it is a matter of what he can shoot instead of which of his armor plates is vunerable. So e.g. an infantry squad or a fast moving tank or armored car runs through an enemy LOS, and shortly after that a shooter pops into LOS from a different direction. Done right, the enemy tracks the hard-to-hit or low value target, and is still traversing back to your shooter when your shooter pops him.

This idea works very well against enemy AT guns as well as tanks, since the AT guns typically rotate quite slowly, and are rather vunerable to simple HE. If the gun is initially pointing 90 degrees away from a location you will attack from, a tank can take on an AT gun with confidence. Popping into LOS over a rise then backing up into cover again is another example.

Those are all suppliments to the basic idea, however, which is to walk the LOS of your tanks through the enemy position in discrete stages, taking on a small portion of the enemy force at a time. When an area is cleared by fire - defenders driving back out of LOS - the infantry secures the far side of the "field", which is an area of "cover" almost by definition. Then the tanks come forward and the process repeats. In a covered area is particularly large, so tank fire cannot clear it out completely, then off-board artillery can be dropped on the "inner" portions too.

Avoid rushes by tanks into the enemy position ahead of your own infantry. Remember that the enemy has infantry AT weapons and can be counted on to torch anything within 40 meters of his infantry, and often kill tanks out to 100-150 meters. You do not have to get close - his infantry AT firepower rises dramatically as the range drops, while your anti-infantry firepower is almost constant regardless of range.

Late in a battle, with many enemies broken and his main positions accounted for, it can ooccasionally pay off to get more aggressive running tanks through his territory. But often you can get the same results by changing the line your tanks are fighting along, by a shift through your own, safe territory.

Once your fire can cut up his position and prevent easy redeployments, you can throw most of your weight now at this piece of his force, now at that. You do not have to run into the middle of him to do this, and the middle of his position is probably the only place most or all of his men can fire at. Which is not where you want to be. Eat the "edges" in other words. Many on one is the name of the game. Don't worry too much about objectives. If you kill off his force, they will fall easily near the end.

I hope this helps, and good luck.

[Splash]

Gremlin

i went to your boot camp but when I would go to the articles the text would 'overload' or something. I'd see the text and then it would flip to black leaving only the pics.

Just to let you know.

[Gremlin]

Hi Splash,

I just checked them, and they seem to load fine. If you're still having problems with them, please email the site's webmaster, Manx: manx@combat-missions.net

[Toran]

I know this thread is old but, like re-runs on TV, it's new if I haven't seen it yet ...

My question involves the nuts and bolts of issuing orders to accomplish the hunt and reverse attack for the Sherman. I've got to take out a Tiger, wespe, and at least 1 panzer and have little margin for error. In setting up the movement orders to hunt and reverse what is the best 'timing'? Get in position below the crest of the hill, then at the start of the next turn hunt up to just beyond the crest of the hill for hull down and spend the remainder of the turn there, exposed but hoping for more than one shot? Then reverse in the next turn? Then repeat?

I've already had the tiger take out one sherm with just one shot, from the front and with little rotation to line up on me (he was waiting some 700-1000m away and I hadn't gotten my recon set up yet and my sherm just rolled right into it).

What everyone describes here sounds definately like art - I'm still paint-by-numbers, though...Thanks for any help!

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

[snips]

81mm mortar FO's can provide fast smoke screens for you advance your Shermans behind, or rather to lay smoke directly in front of enemy tanks.

As well as its obvious use against open-topped vehicles and guns, indirect fire can be useful against tanks and assault guns. I was immensely pleased when I bagged a Panther with a lucky 4.2" mortar hit; I've just completed a game against the AI that saw a Nashorn knocked out by 3" mortars; and if VT amn is available, it tears up open-topped vehicles in jig time.

Even with a tank or assault-gun, tather than sit tight under a steady rain of exploding iron, the AFV's owner might (and the AI probably will) prefer to move rather than risk immobilization of a freak kill. If your tanks are positioned carefully, this might just chivvy him out to somewhere where you can get a flank shot. At all events, they will almost certainly close down, and that might give you a crucial edge in spotting when you come within sight of each other.

Don't neglect on-table small-calibre mortars as a useful source of quick smoke. There's also the "Captain Mad" method. Use massed off-table smoke fire on a location you know the enemy AFVs to be -- this builds up a good thick cloud of smoke, as if the cu-nim had come down to feed -- and rush your tanks into it, trusting to superior numbers and faster turrets to get the flank and rear shots that will give you victory in the tank vs. tank battle. Assuming all your tanks don't get blatted by schrecks lurking in the smoke, of course.

All the best,

John.

[L.Tankersley]

Originally posted by Toran:

My question involves the nuts and bolts of issuing orders to accomplish the hunt and reverse attack for the Sherman. I've got to take out a Tiger, wespe, and at least 1 panzer and have little margin for error. In setting up the movement orders to hunt and reverse what is the best 'timing'? Get in position below the crest of the hill, then at the start of the next turn hunt up to just beyond the crest of the hill for hull down and spend the remainder of the turn there, exposed but hoping for more than one shot? Then reverse in the next turn? Then repeat?

I prefer to issue orders for both hunt and reverse in the same turn. If you don't do this, then your tank is going to be sitting in an exposed position unable to move for 13 seconds (or whatever your command delay is; 13 seconds is about par for regular crews). I will often issue orders for two or more hunt-reverse sets at the same time. If you're hunting forward at a predictable time every turn, your opponent can anticipate that.

The hunt command can sometimes be problematic, too, as the vehicle will stop immediately and engage any suitable target while on a hunt leg. If you want to be sure you reach a given spot, consider using the move or fast commands. Unfortunately, since there is no way to order a pause in the middle of a movement (as in, "move fast up to the crest line, wait 15 seconds, then reverse back here") you will often reach your overwatch position, then start to reverse and THEN see the enemy. While executing a reverse order, your tank won't stop to engage and often you'll reverse out of LOS before you can fire.

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

[snips]

81mm mortar FO's can provide fast smoke screens for you advance your Shermans behind, or rather to lay smoke directly in front of enemy tanks.

Don't neglect on-table small-calibre mortars as a useful source of quick smoke.

All the best,

John.</font>

[Guest PondScum]

Set up a hunt-and-reverse order, but add in two or three pauses, so that you only start hunting around the 40-50 second mark. The idea is that you try to get LOS and (and maybe a first shot off) just before the 60 second mark, while still in your hunt move. Then, at the beginning of the next turn you have lots of information and choices:

</font>

• You get to see the hit and kill chances of your tank against any enemies in sight. </font>
• If your tank just ran into trouble (low hit chance, low kill chance, more enemy tanks appeared, a hidden enemy AT gun opened up), you can drag the hunt waypoint behind your tank, turn it into a reverse, and your tank immediately starts reversing out of trouble.</font>
• If your tank MAY be in trouble (it's got a good shot at one opponent, but there's another one turning or moving to get LOS), then cancel your orders and plot a new reverse order. You'll stay in sight for 15 seconds or so, enough to get a shot or two off but then duck away again.</font>
• If the coast looks clear - it probably won't be, because your opponent will be busy thinking up new ways to kill your tank that just appeared. So stick to the hunt-and-reverse order, i.e. kill the poor sap you've got in your sights, and then duck away again
  </font>

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by PondScum:

Set up a hunt-and-reverse order, but add in two or three pauses, so that you only start hunting around the 40-50 second mark. The idea is that you try to get LOS and (and maybe a first shot off) just before the 60 second mark, while still in your hunt move.

I usually prefer not to get a shot off before the end of the turn. That way you have a good chance that your tank hasn't been spotted yet, so you won't get targeted by something at the end of the turn and by everything at the start of the next one.

Dschugaschwili

[BigJoe]

Shermans did not fare well against german armor because german armour was superiour to the shermans especially the tigers and panthers. the sherman cannot penetrate the frontal armor of a tiger unless you hit a weak spot but the tiger can go through a sherman and out the other end. A good thing to remember when engaging german armor is to outnumber them and use your superior mobility to flank them. play as the germans when there are tigers involved and you will see why you are having difficulty playing as the americans.

[Toran]

OK. Thanks for the helpful tips - I'm starting my 'tank basic training' with these in mind.

One thing I've noticed and it is a little annoying: I've acheived hull down with a shermon, say, on a panzer and have a nice flank shot all lined up. I see that the panzer's turret is pointed away from me so he hasn't seen me yet. So what do my guys do? They start in with the MG. The panzer starts to take fire and I see the turret coming my way and what should have been an easy first shot with my main gun turns into who is quicker on the draw. Now, I'm assuming that the reason my sherm didn't open up immediately after making visual contact with the panzer is that he's adjusting turret and/or loading up the big guns. But why in the world is he giving his position away by firing a MG? Should I have gone into the hull down all buttoned up? Would that have kept my over-eager gunners from giving away their location? Newbie question, I'm sure, but these battles sometimes really hinge on you keeping your armor alive and I'm seeing that the sherms have glass jaws!

Thanks

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by Toran:

One thing I've noticed and it is a little annoying: I've acheived hull down with a shermon, say, on a panzer and have a nice flank shot all lined up. I see that the panzer's turret is pointed away from me so he hasn't seen me yet. So what do my guys do? They start in with the MG. The panzer starts to take fire and I see the turret coming my way and what should have been an easy first shot with my main gun turns into who is quicker on the draw. Now, I'm assuming that the reason my sherm didn't open up immediately after making visual contact with the panzer is that he's adjusting turret and/or loading up the big guns. But why in the world is he giving his position away by firing a MG? Should I have gone into the hull down all buttoned up? Would that have kept my over-eager gunners from giving away their location? Newbie question, I'm sure, but these battles sometimes really hinge on you keeping your armor alive and I'm seeing that the sherms have glass jaws! Thanks

I think that they use the MG first to try and kill/button-up the opposing Tank Commander. If that happens, its quite likely that you'll get several free shots off before the other tanks spots you...especially if the targeted tank is moving, or better yet, fast-moving.

Its a very bad idea to button your tank up before engaging another tank, as your spotting abilities will be vastly reduced- anything attacking your flanks can then do and not really worry about your T.C.'s spotting them. The only time you really want to voluntarily button up is if you're in the middle of an artillery strike, or you are close to small arms fire, maybe less than 300m? Not sure on that range.

I just played someone who had a pair of Shermans and a 3rd Sherman further away. He brought the first two in to "finish" two platoons I had moved far forward as bait/observors. He buttoned them up b/c of the threat of close range small arms fire. When I popped up one Marder at the end of a turn, he brought out his 3rd Sherman (also buttoned b/c it was close to my 2nd platoon). I then brought out 2 more Marders (3 total in a tight group), and had a StuG flank 'em all from 90 degrees. His Shermans couldn't spot my StuG, who killed the single Sherman, and then (!) slowly rotated like only a StuG can to kill the final Sherman.

Net result:

him: 3 dead shermans

me: 1 dead Marder III (plus I stupidly lost a 251/9 by involving it in the armor fight- ya learn the hard way!)

Moral-don't button unless you have to

[Redwolf]

If the target tank isn't buttoned up, it would have spotted you anyway. I don't think it makes any difference that the MG fired (in CMBO, not reality) and if the target tank was closed, the MG wouldn't have fired. I don't think this is a game problem.

I think you could have buttoned your tank in this situation. If you give a manual (but out-of-LOS) target order to the Sherman (it must be visible to the player) and then give an order to move into LOS, it will spot it and I don't think with a disadvantage compared to unbuttoned. The target tank might have smallarms bodyguard and if you become shocked while moving into LOS you would be screwed.

If CMBO MGs were anything realistic, buttoned up tanks would be much more common. Right now people keep them open almost all the time when enemy armor *may* be around. In reality you would have dead crewmembers the instand you move into any MG or MG-possessing squad position, or mortar fire or whatever.

[wbs]

From Pondscum:

If your tank just ran into trouble (low hit chance, low kill chance, more enemy tanks appeared, a hidden enemy AT gun opened up), you can drag the hunt waypoint behind your tank, turn it into a reverse, and your tank immediately starts reversing out of trouble.

Pondscum, please correct me if I'm wrong, but since the 'hunt' command always has the tank moving in a forward direction, wouldn't the tank make a 180 degree turn in order to execute your command? If so, that would give the enemy a nice shot in the butt.....

[L.Tankersley]

Originally posted by wbs:

Pondscum, please correct me if I'm wrong, but since the 'hunt' command always has the tank moving in a forward direction, wouldn't the tank make a 180 degree turn in order to execute your command? If so, that would give the enemy a nice shot in the butt.....

No. You drag the waypoint behind the tank, and while it is selected hit the 'reverse' key to change it to a 'reverse' waypoint. Then it's just like it was a reverse waypoint all along. This is another reason to plot multiple "tophat" style maneuvers at once - it gives you more waypoints to play with. You want to keep them close together (keep the path lengths at or less than the distance you can drag a waypoint) to maintain maximum flexibility. This can help offset the inflexibility you get at turn boundaries with no pending orders.

[L.Tankersley]

Originally posted by redwolf:

If CMBO MGs were anything realistic, buttoned up tanks would be much more common. Right now people keep them open almost all the time when enemy armor *may* be around. In reality you would have dead crewmembers the instand you move into any MG or MG-possessing squad position, or mortar fire or whatever.[/QB]

I don't know about this. It doesn't take long to duck down into a tank. It takes a little longer to close a hatch, but not much, and while you're doing it you're not very exposed. Even while crew exposed, a mortar round would have to hit pretty durn close to have a decent chance of injuring a tank crewman. As far as MGs are concerned -- if you drive your tank up within 10 or 20 meters of a strong infantry force, maybe you're right, but in my experience the tank crew will usually have buttoned up autonomously long before then anyway. It's not all that easy to hit a partially exposed target with the first burst from an MG at any signficant range, and if you don't hit, the guy is probably going to duck.