Cast your vote at CM Mod Database!

[ColumbusOHGamer]

Subscription Poll

I need you input! Thanks!

COG

[MrNoobie]

why not just use banners i dont care if you have a half a page full of banners, i dont mind em at all its the popups that are annoying. Two popups are fine but 4 or 5?! go for banners the site aint about beauty anyway.

[Rob Murray]

Like I've said before: the pop-ups & banners are annoying but I rather see them than have to pay a subscription for mods, etc. I'm on a limited budget. Gaming is expensive enough without getting dinged in the wallet again; especially in US funds ( the exchange rate is a killer ). I realize that running this site is an expensive proposition & I appreciate the effort that you've put into it. However, a lot of people just can't afford this kind of thing. We have to pay for internet service, anti virus updates ( there some really nasty ones out there ), etc. & we have only so much money to spend.

Please don't ask people like myself to pay for this stuff. It'll will only serve to shut us out as many of the mods that are posted on your site aren't available anywhere else.

[Krazy Canuck]

Originally posted by ColumbusOHGamer:

Subscription Poll

I need you input! Thanks!

COG

Up to this point 38 out of 48 have voted either not to pay at all or are willing to contribute less than a measly buck a month!!!

I really do not want to start a verbal(chicken**** hide behind your safe little monitor) debate here, but folks, this is bull****! You expect someone to contribute his time and money, while you get to play for free??

COG, if this the true indication of our real assessment and appreciation of your efforts you must feel ........more than a little pissed?

Wow, this is/was an eye-opener for me, I guess the *make everyone but me pay attitude* is not unique to Canada.

KC

[Pzman]

CK not everyone has money to spend on mods; if you have to pay for them, I would do without.

[ December 07, 2002, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Panzerman ]

[Cos]

I'll contribute what I can (like I do at Band of Brothers), not saying it will be alot, but hope every bit helps.

[Sgt CDAT]

KC the $0 was a vote to leave the popups also. I dont mine the pop ups. He also has paypal set up for those that have the money to help out!

[1SGWinks]

Personally it is worth 20 bucks a year to be able to go to ONE site and get all the mods I need for CMBB. I just voted and it is about 51%/49% in favor of keeping the pop-ups. I really dont think a buck a month is too much to ask-you all blow that much each day on nothing

[Rob Murray]

I've said it before & I'll say it again. I do appreciate what COG has done. However I am unable to pay for a subscription right now. Christmas is coming soon, plus I'll have to renew my anti-virus update subscription soon. All this costs bucks. I don't appreciate somebody calling me a whiner or a parasite ( speaking of KC ). I'm not. Most of the mods that I see on the site aren't posted anywhere else. So what am I supposed to do - do without simply because it's not within my ability to pay right now? That's hardly fair. Why should I be punished because of my financial circumstances. I'd be willing to pay but I'm not able to at the moment.

COG I understand your site is expensive however do you think that you could look into more ads to offset the cost. I don't mind pop ups or banners if it means that I can have continued access to your site. After all 99% of the websites that I visit have these things: what's one more.

[ December 08, 2002, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Rob Murray ]

[Manx]

I had contemplated doing something similar when i was trying to keep COMBAT MISSIONS afloat, but decided against "forced" subscription. I always had the belief that the CM community should remain free -- there are others ways that you can generate income without having to charge ppl to enter and d/l from your site, some of which you are already doing (PAYPAL).

I eventually had to close CMS because of the extortionate amount of money it was costing me, although i was "bailed out" by Madmatt/BFC who kindly allowed the transfer of all the mods i was hosting to be switched to CMHQ (they are all still there today).

I know it ain't easy, but try everything you can to keep it free first. IMO, pop-ups will just alienate you -- the vast majority of ppl hate em' and won't click on them anyway. Try joining a few book re-seller programs. I, and many others here, buy WWII books on a regular basis and i'm sure we could go through you and earn you some commission even though we might be able to get them cheaper elsewhere.

If you still aren't making enough to cover your bandwidth expenses using PAYPAL, book sales etc., then try other (more drastic) measures.

Just one quick question COG: Did you realise just how popular CM and the CM mod scene was before you went into mod hosting?

[Krazy Canuck]

Originally posted by Rob Murray:

I don't appreciate somebody calling me a whiner or a parasite ( speaking of KC ). I'm not.

Rob,

I did not call you anything! The fact that my post followed yours was pure coincidence.

Just to expand upon my original post; to date less than 100 people have voted?? If there were only 100 people clammering for more mods or a mod site I'm sure we would not be having this discussion, let alone the *vote*. Where are the others???

As I read this, COG has never said this would be a user pay *only* site! Any contributions would be greatly appreciated, hopefully this community would be willing to support his effort with more than *wows & attaboys*. He, and I'm guessing here, is probably as surprised as I am that, to date, less than 100 people have shown support by even acknowledging the situation through a vote.

As Manx has pointed out, a website such as this is time consuming and expensive, so much so that he had to abandon his to MadMatt & co., my point is lets not let this one go down the tubes. I am not advocating a *user* pay system, if you cannot afford it, *welcome* come on in, hope you like what's here. But, by God, if you can afford a buck a month(and only you know this) then pay up and *welcome* come on in, hope you like what you see!

COG, if I'm out of order here, then I am sincerely sorry.

KC

[Barleyman]

It might not be a bad idea to limit the DL bandwith for freebie users. So either you pay a bit and get nice bandwith or suffer crappy DL speeds. Pick your poison. That'd also limit the expenses due to bandwith use.

[Leit]

ColumbusOHGamer

Contact me with your current hoster conditions. Pahaps I can find better solution for your.

---------------

ICQ 84873967

[ColumbusOHGamer]

Originally posted by Barleyman:

It might not be a bad idea to limit the DL bandwith for freebie users. So either you pay a bit and get nice bandwith or suffer crappy DL speeds. Pick your poison. That'd also limit the expenses due to bandwith use.

Actually, I just thought of that today. I'll give it some more thought...

COG

[x13th]

Off the top, CM Mods is a good site and I understand that it takes work to maintain a site and money to pay for bandwith, *especially* in the states.

I emailed COG a while back asking him where he was going with his site when he asked for money via "paypal" as I had a feeling that a subscription would be comming.

So with that being said and with his idea of a "not for profit buisness" about to unfold (nessacary over $600? Whats that, 6 months of high speed conection?), I would like to make the following points:

1. Have as many "pop-ups" as you like, I have mine disabled

2. Being the only, and the first site to charge this community a "subscription" fee for mods that are "free" (Other than the time the Modders put into them) would be a shame and frankly frustrating.

3. If this is where it it as for you then it is time for BTS to get back to you. You have been doing a fine job with the site, it is clean and simple and easy to use.(and really good) Perhaps BTS/ Maddmatt could help you out somehow? I would be nice to hear thier input.

4. I think that having the mods in one place is a fantastic idea. (should I repeat that?)

5. The Modders and the Community as a whole help make this game (CMBO & CMBB) *Better*. This Forum, the Mods and the support(Such as CMMODS) are never mentioned in any review and that is a shame. These are the resources that make this game stand out above and beyond any other.

6. If a "Subscription" thing were to happen, for the sceptics out there, COG would you be willing to have a link on the site that once you "Subscribed" you could see a breakdown of cost vrs. "ads" income vrs. subscription funds? In other words if you do make this a "NFP" buisness would you be willing to have those who subscribed on a yearly turn be a part of the opereration?

7. Frankly COG I do not know you. So far you have put up a good and usefull site, and that is appreciated, have no misunderstanding there. When you ask for money though it makes me wonder why you are the first? Then again, with mabey the exception of CMHQ, you have been the best, and most current. I do not mind working something out to input my share if that is what it comes down to. I do think it should be "not for profit" though and I think you need to be able to show us that. How I am not exactly sure. I am in no way tring to discurage you or hinder this site (or any other) I would simply like to see a "check and ballance" system that ensures fairness.

8.COG, give us some numbers, let us know(and BTS) what this is costing.

With luck this will be smothed out soon.

[ColumbusOHGamer]

Originally posted by Krazy Canuck:

COG, if I'm out of order here, then I am sincerely sorry.

KC[/QB]

Jeezus...I never thought you guys would get this vocal about things.

I can promise you that no matter what happens, I will keep this site up as long as I possibly can. Someone asked if I knew what I was getting into. I thought I did, but folks are a lot more passionate about this than I expected.

The whole point of generating revenue for the site was to make it self sustaining. A suggestion to only use banner ads was made. That would be great, except the total revenue generated by the two banner ads I'm running for the past week has been $2.50. I'm probably going to pull the plug on them now.

I can't say I was too surprised at the voting turn out. Most people would rather get something for free, rather than have to pay even $1/month for it. But the 50/50 vote just makes it harder of rme to figure out which way to go.

Somehow, I'll get s solution that benefits everyone. Thanks.

COG

[ColumbusOHGamer]

Originally posted by x13th:

2. Being the only, and the first site to charge this community a "subscription" fee for mods that are "free" (Other than the time the Modders put into them) would be a shame and frankly frustrating.

I agree completely. I do not WANT to do it this way. Can you think of another alternative?

Originally posted by x13th:

3. If this is where it it as for you then it is time for BTS to get back to you. You have been doing a fine job with the site, it is clean and simple and easy to use.(and really good) Perhaps BTS/ Maddmatt could help you out somehow? I would be nice to hear thier input.

I have been in contact with them. I will not give details, but let's just say that I'm tryiong to work this out on my own first.

Originally posted by x13th:

4. I think that having the mods in one place is a fantastic idea. (should I repeat that?)

I'm glad you like it.

Originally posted by x13th:

5. The Modders and the Community as a whole help make this game (CMBO & CMBB) *Better*. This Forum, the Mods and the support(Such as CMMODS) are never mentioned in any review and that is a shame. These are the resources that make this game stand out above and beyond any other.

Can't disagree with that. It's why I put the site up in the first place.

Originally posted by x13th:

6. If a "Subscription"...<cut>...In other words if you do make this a "NFP" buisness would you be willing to have those who subscribed on a yearly turn be a part of the opereration?

No I would not. Input form the community is great, but I'm doing fine running this for myself.

Originally posted by x13th:

7. Frankly COG I do not know you. So far you have put up a good and usefull site, and that is appreciated, have no misunderstanding there. When you ask for money though it makes me wonder why you are the first? Then again, with mabey the exception of CMHQ, you have been the best, and most current....

Well, If you read some of the previous threads, you'll see what my goal is. Also, I need to get a UPS backup and other hardware pieces.

Originally posted by x13th:

...I do not mind working something out to input my share if that is what it comes down to. I do think it should be "not for profit" though and I think you need to be able to show us that. How I am not exactly sure. I am in no way tring to discurage you or hinder this site (or any other) I would simply like to see a "check and ballance" system that ensures fairness.

Seems like you're really stuck on me disclosing my financial records to everyone. I'm just a tab bit uncomfortable doing that. Go read some of my other responses of what the money would be used for.

Originally posted by x13th:

8.COG, give us some numbers, let us know(and BTS) what this is costing.

See question 7.

COG

[x13th]

Seems like you're really stuck on me disclosing my financial records to everyone. I'm just a tab bit uncomfortable doing that. Go read some of my other responses of what the money would be used for.

Yes and no. If BTS were to sponsor you in any way and it was agreed that your site was the go-to to host *all* the mods (or at least most), then I would shell out $10-20 US a year (That is $16-32 CDN btw.) and I would have no problem with that (Can you wait till Feb?)

Mabey it is because I live in Canada where our government uses our tax dollars for who knows what? but I always worry about where my money is going and why. I belive that you are spending the money in good faith and perhaps you were unprepared for the bandwith situation. The concern is more that *other people* start to ask for subsciptions, prices go up and so forth. One site that has all the goods with a fixed sub. rate is ok, espicialy if BTS supports.

Why BTS support?, if you are *the* site, then they should be there and at the very least reconize your site on thier list of go-to sites or something. It also adds a level of ligitamacy to the site. Rather than a "fan" site, it become the "CMBB" site for mods.

I see the subsciption rate as the only real viable methodology other than outright sponsorship. Internet ads of any kind do not make money and only piss people off.

I think $1 a month/per person shoud be more than adiquite. That would be $100-200 a month. Would that cut it?

Discussion is a good thing.

[Krazy Canuck]

Originally posted by x13th:

[QB

I see the subsciption rate as the only real viable methodology other than outright sponsorship. Internet ads of any kind do not make money and only piss people off.

I think $1 a month/per person shoud be more than adiquite. That would be $100-200 a month. Would that cut it?

Discussion is a good thing.[/QB]

x13th,

Seeing as your from Canada you should be accustomed to waste from most administrative types

For COG to be able to realize $100-200/mth or as you've put it $1/mth/person he would need a 100 people to donate that $1/mth.

To date per the vote stats, 120 total votes, 65 votes for 0(or 50%+), 21 votes for $5, 15 votes for $10, or put another way 75.8% who are willing to contribute less than $1/mth. While the other 24.2% are. Please bear with me here as I'm not a Stat grog.

In other words: 75.8% would have access while contributing 35.4% of the revenue, and when we reverse these stats we get, 24.2% contribute 64.6% of the revenue and stands in line with everyone else. Sounds a lot like our medicare system......eh

Yeah, I know, liars figure and figures lie, but...

Were I COG, I'd pass on this whole thing.

KC

*note*; I'm sure everyone is capable of running the #'s, they were used for effect only.

*note#2*, I, in no way, mean to embarrass, demean, nor in all honesty piss anyone off by stating the truth, I just felt it needed to be pointed out.

[HeadHunter]

I'm content to donate as funds permit and according to my usage, but I'm not sure I'd go for a subscription plan - I know how much I have used the site, but no idea if my needs will continue to be the same.

So I'm most comfortable with donating when I can, however much I can afford.

To everyone here who's commented on how awful it is that some people would only donate $10 a year or less - may I ask you, have you sent a donation yet? If so, have you done so lately?

Because it seems to me that criticizing others is improper unless you're setting a better example.

As for limiting the bandwidth for non-paying users, I'd like to observe that most of the time I'm lucky to get more than 10-15K per second on my cable connection to the site. I still think it's worthwhile, but I can't imagine how much more one could limit the bandwidth...

[Soddball]

It depends when you log on. Sometimes I get a steaming 5k/sec from my 56k modem, so I'm not complaining

Incidentally, yes I have sent a donation, and it was last week. I originally suggested the paypal scheme so felt it was only right and fair to put up a donation.

I think the idea of bandwidth limitation for users that don't cough up a contribution is a good idea. Maybe you could have a megabyte limit rather than a download speed limit, because a freebie user with a 56k modem could still download all they wanted on a download speed limit.

CohGamer, whatever you do, you're going to piss some people off, probably making them growl and show their teeth. Just remember that it's your server, your time, and your money.

[ColumbusOHGamer]

Originally posted by Krazy Canuck:

Were I COG, I'd pass on this whole thing. <subscription>

Since only 150 out of the 800-1000 users have voted, and of those, only 69 (46%) said they would be willing to pay, it seems that the majority of folks would rather have a free service.

I can't say I blame them. I don't know who said it, but someone reminded me that since the beginning, all the mods and scenario website have been free. I think that is the right thing to do.

Originally posted by HeadHunter:

As for limiting the bandwidth for non-paying users, I'd like to observe that most of the time I'm lucky to get more than 10-15K per second on my cable connection to the site. I still think it's worthwhile, but I can't imagine how much more one could limit the bandwidth...

You should see MY bandwidth between 4pm and 8pm every night. Often I'll get timeouts just trying to get to BTS! My ISP just changed News service and implemented a 30GB limit. So I've lost newsgroups now too...

Originally posted by Soddball:

CohGamer, whatever you do, you're going to piss some people off, probably making them growl and show their teeth. Just remember that it's your server, your time, and your money.

I know and that's a shame. I've got one other option left that I'm going to try out this week. If that doesn't work, then I guess I'll just leave things as they are until my ISP shuts me down.

Thanks for everyone's input.

And thanks to BTS for letting me carry this discussion on here. I know it's a bit OT.

COG

[ December 09, 2002, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: ColumbusOHGamer ]

[Tarquelne]

I can't say I was too surprised at the voting turn out. Most people would rather get something for free, rather than have to pay even $1/month for it. But the 50/50 vote just makes it harder of rme to figure out which way to go.

"If you prefer to have me use other methods like banner and popup advertising, just vote for $0."

Banners and popup's don't bother me, so I voted $0. I'd _prefer_ the site to be free. If you eliminate the (apparently) unrealistic ad. option the votes might change substantially.

Minimizing :mad: : I like the idea of limits for non-$$-contributors. Maybe a "Premium" vrs. "Free" service? Non-contributors have a monthly MB limit, "Premium" users don't? So the "freeloaders" would still get access to the site, and could eventually download everything.

Given the fact that you have real financial limits, I don't see how anyone reasonable could be upset by a monthly download limit.

Sure, placating the "reasonable" will only help you with a small minority of the users, but every bit helps.

Are you willing to tell us what you think your monthly costs will be? (Did you already... did I miss it?) It's hard to make/judge suggestions (or figure out how much we think is "fair" to give) not knowing how much you need.

I, btw, don't think you should have to publish your financial records, or anything similar. But allowing everyone to understand the costs might encourage them to contribute.

[Guest Sgt. Emren]

Please consider that internet speed is also a variable of where in the world you are. I am not willing to pay for a service which is not mirrored in Europe. This is why I voted for a pop-up service.