Heer infantry... Which to choose?

[Omi]

Everytime I must select my infantry as the Germans, I always feel lost.

I usually go with a Rifle Company, but what are all these others type of companies and platoons?

I know that engineers can remove mine fields, but what are their others abilities and how do they work?

I also know that the squads all have different weapons depending on the type of infantry you choose, but I want to know their "real" use.

What are Volkgrenadiers? Why are they cheaper than normal Rifle? What makes motorized infantry different? What are fusiliers for? Security Platoons? Panzer Grenadier? :confused:

Also, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like "buying" bigger infantry is cheaper than getting everything separated. The 88mm spotter(REG) is listed as 67 points when in a company, but 71 if you buy it alone. Why is that?

Finally, is buying battallions and companies the only way to get HQs?

[JasonC]

"Everytime I must select my infantry as the Germans, I always feel lost".

If you do then others probably do too, so it is worth explaining.

"engineers can remove mine fields, but what are their others abilities"

They come with flamethrowers, which you can of course also buy on the support screen, and they also carry 2 demo charges per squad. In CMBB demo charges are pretty strong. They are less important in CMBO, and especially so for Germans with their panzerfausts. For others they help with infantry anti-tank ability. They can blow bunkers, though you need to be close to the back door for them to work best.

Usually the pioneers aren't worth it for the Germans in CMBO. They have better options. Pioneers are mostly rifle armed besides their heavy weapons, and the flamethrowers can be tough to use. To clear mines, though, there isn't much option. One platoon of them can make sense for that reason. In tight terrain (forest or city), their special weapons can also help.

"I want to know their "real" use."

Two senses of "real" - what they are really good for in CMBO, and what they really did in the real war. They often coincide, but not always. I'll try to address both.

"What are Volkgrenadiers? Why are they cheaper than normal Rifle?"

Volksgrenadiers, or "VG" for short, are an infantry type introduced by the Germans in the second half of 1944. Except for rebuilt units, all the new ones after that point were made on the VG pattern. This was a period when the Germans were desperate for military manpower, since they were trying to repair the simultaneous collapse in the east and in France that summer. The new infantry pattern was built with certain ideas in mind to economize on what was scarce then, and make the most of what was abundant and useful.

The biggest change was far more SMGs in the weapons mix. This was supposed to make up for smaller units and in many cases for less training or less experienced men. Similarly, they used fausts and schrecks for AT, without much in the way of heavy PAK. They retained good arty support, including mortars - part of the idea was to make heavy weapons go farther. The infantry was supposed to defend at close range. They often had a defensive mission, and frequently would be an "infantry" force type. Occasionally they'd have a few StuG or other assault guns supporting them.

So, a VG company has 2 platoons that are predominately SMG armed. With only 2 LMGs, in one heavy squad. All the platoons are smaller, only 28 men. The rifle platoon is supposed to support HMGs and heavy weapons to control open ground areas at longer range.

But the bulk of the combat power is held until point blank range, in the form of SMGs and panzerfausts. Defensively, those are meant to be used from ambush or in reverse slope deployments, so the first trigger pull happens at 50m or less. (Even teenagers and naval transferees could hit things at 50m with a machine pistol

In CMBO the game, they are can be very powerful because you can buy many platoons, and their close range fighting ability is very high. If you take them as greens they are even cheaper, and they still kill things that come close enough. Being smaller, though, the squads can't take as much punishment individually.

"What makes motorized infantry different?"

Motorized infantry form the bulk of the panzergrenadiers (Pz Gdrs for short) - the infantry component of the panzer divisions. They were considerably better armed than the regular infantry. "Motorized" just means they drove close to the battlefield on trucks, dismounting to fight. Only a small portion of the Pz Gdrs were "armored" rather than "motorized" - meaning mounted in armored halftracks equipped with machineguns, rather than unarmed trucks.

Motorized Pz Gdrs can be bought as "Heer" or as "SS". They come with 2 LMGs per squad, giving them much higher firepower than the standard types. Unlike the VG with their SMGs, this firepower extends out to medium ranges, too. They have more SMGs and MP44s than most, also, so in close they are nothing to sneeze at. The SS get 1 more MP 44 per squad in place of a rifle, making them marginally nastier.

Veteran motorized Pz Gdrs are the expensive uberinfantry option for the Germans. That would represent the cream in terms of training, experience, and armament. They worked with the tanks, especially the turret variety (Tigers, Panthers, Pz IVs) as opposed to all the assault guns. They also got most of the offensive missions.

Fallschirmjagers (FJ) are paratroopers. In reality, some of those were armed more like the standard infantry companies, while the best of them were as well armed as you see in CMBO. Those best armed FJ are as strong as the Pz Gdrs, and are the other main 2 LMG infantry option.

They come with Panzerschrecks and 81mm mortars. Realistically, they had a few StuG in support sometimes, but much less armor than the Pz Gdrs. Frequently less artillery than even the Heer infantry (because of an emphasis on being light, way back). Infantry armament and quality were supposed to make up for fewer "big ticket" items.

Gebirgsjaegers are mountain troops. Rare in France. In CMBO they are given a very high mix of SMGs along with 1 LMG per squad, making them somewhat like VG in their tactical abilities, a bit better actually but a bit more expensive too.

Fusiliers were the recon battalions of the new VG infantry divisions. 1 out of 7 battalions in a VG division was Fusilier. They were often used as a divisional reserve or to lead attacks. They tended to have a higher portion of experienced men than some of the greener VG, but that varied from unit to unit. They had no vehicles beyond bicycles, and only modest amounts of formal recon training.

In CMBO, they give a mix of squad types, some pure SMG, some standard, and some about half SMG and have rifle. This makes a company of them a very flexible force, since they can tailor the weapons they send on a particular mission (by e.g. using the company HQ to command a new large platoon, and weaking others). They also have lots of sharpshooters.

A typical use is to have the standard squads work with HMGs, FOs, and sharpshooters to provide a base of fire, while the SMG heavy units sneak around a flank for a close assault. Sometimes it makes sense to send some sharpshooters with the sneaky group, too.

Security infantry are basically guards. They had rear area duty to protect HQs, supply depots, bridges, rail lines, and the like. They did anti-partisan sweeps and patrols, but their main job was simply to garrison things. They were often manned by older men, including a fair number of WW I veterans.

Then there are Volksturm. These were civilian levies, essentially untrained, called up inside Germany proper once the war got there. They were often old men and sometimes teenagers, but also included men with one or another kind of draft deferment before the war came to town. They typically were defending their own town or village or things very close to it.

They were provided with large numbers of automatic weapons and infantry AT, but essentially nothing else. (No tanks, no arty, no guns, etc). Sometimes they supplimented a regular force that did have access to those things, though.

In CMBO, they have very strong AT ability and can stage good ambushes, but their small squads - especially with realistic low quality levels (mostly conscript, only occasionally green) make them brittle themselves. Plus, on their own they can't hurt anything more than about 200m away. They work best in city or forest ambush defenses.

Last but not least there are the Sturmgruppe companies. (Rare, army level special battalions). They have massive 13 man squads, each 2 LMG armed. Quite expensive but robust. They can fight split into half squads, even, though it makes a lot of units for a few HQs to command. They were meant to lead particularly tough attacks, though in practice they were used for all kinds of missions, since they were usually in reserve when something hit the fan somewhere.

""buying" bigger infantry is cheaper than getting everything separate"

Yes. You get a discount for buying the standard unit type. If instead you "tailor" everything, mixing and matching at will, you pay slightly more for each item and so get slightly less overall. This is meant to encourage use of realistic units.

"is buying battallions and companies the only way to get HQs?"

To get higher level ones, and more of them, yes. The platoons come with platoon HQs, naturally.

Buying companies is always a good idea. The force is cheaper and you get better command and control. Battalions can be worth it (for the discount) if you want everything in them, but can be a mistake if they aren't exactly what you need. (You can get more weapons teams than you want e.g., and maybe not the most useful types for your situation). Company HQs can command any unit.

What to make of all of the above, in terms of useful and realistic types?

The most useful types IMO are the motorized Pz Gdr (particularly the SS) and the VG. The former when you want balanced attack and defense ability and good range. The latter when you think you can arrange to fight at close quarters, either for terrain reasons or for an ambush based defense.

A motorized SS Pz Gdr company with a few panzerscrecks added is a strong, well balanced force. Particularly useful on the attack, with armor helping. Use the company HQ and weapons platoon HQ to command heavy weapons groups, each with 2 HMG and 1 81mm mortar. Add sharpshooters and FOs to those if available. The platoons get schrecks and go first. You can also try buying 1 platoon of armored Pz Gdrs and using them as scouts, while assigning their halftracks to help the heavy weapons get around faster. If you still have points, additional independent Mot. Pz Gdr platoons.

With the VG, try buying a company and adding a 4th platoon of VG rifle, 2-3 schrecks and 2-3 HMGs. Put the HMGs with the VG rifle and the shrecks with the SMGs. Use the company HQ to make a 5th platoon of one type or the other, forward or back but in the center of the formation. Then you've got ranged and close in firepower in a two layered line. You don't have to reveal one to use the other. Add hidden guns, minefields, mortar FOs and TRPs, and you get a flexible and cheap infantry defense.

I hope this helps.

[IntelWeenie]

Most of the price difference between infantry types is related to weapons and number of squad members.

Yes, buying infantry as a formation makes all the little parts cheaper. I think that's mainly to discourage "cherry picking" (picking units that results in a badly ahistoric force mix, like having 6 Arty observers supporting a mere platoon of infantry).

[Omi]

Thank you very much. That was very helpful.

Also...I have one more question. Is using multiple 300mm rockets artillery spotters like cheating? Even if the rockets are innacurate, the "splash" damage is so big that I feel bad using them. On my last game, I had 4 spotters and they destroyed half of the enemy vehicles and decimated nearly all their infantry. All I needed to do was to walk in with my rifle company and take each flag while finishing off the enemy squads.

[JasonC]

Yes, using multiple 300mm FOs is gamey. So is naval artillery (lol).

[Sir Uber General]

It sounds like you have force type set to unrestricted. Try setting it to something else like combined arms, it makes force mixes more realistic.

[Dandelion]

As an less significant contribution to Jasons excellent and herculean list there, I would like to add that Sturmkompanien also - apart from the regular, organic units mentioned - are reminiscent of the special assault or special raid detachments often formed ad hoc by infantry and armoured infantry divisions during the late war. Normally to spearhead attacks. We see such detachments spearheading some assaults in Normandy and, more frequently, the Ardennes.

The detachments were more or less handpicked people from the regiments - anything from a platoon to several companies - with extra allotment of pooled automatic weaponry and explosives, often boosted by pioneers. The intent was of course that they punch a hole in the enemy line for the rest to follow.

Regards

Dandelion

[Joachim]

Originally posted by JasonC:

A motorized SS Pz Gdr company with a few panzerscrecks added is a strong, well balanced force. Particularly useful on the attack, with armor helping. Use the company HQ and weapons platoon HQ to command heavy weapons groups, each with 2 HMG and 1 81mm mortar. Add sharpshooters and FOs to those if available. The platoons get schrecks and go first. You can also try buying 1 platoon of armored Pz Gdrs and using them as scouts, while assigning their halftracks to help the heavy weapons get around faster.

Using Armored PzGrdr as scouts means you lose squad heavy wpns earlier. 8 men with 2 LMGs are too valuable. Their firepower is not much less than the motorized 10-men variant. The motorized PzGrdr can sustain more losses and keep their LMGs than the Armored ones.

The armored PzGrdrs are better suited for overwatch, where they get less incoming and their low number is a lesser drawback than up front.

Gruß

Joachim

[Beta1]

In CMBO the sturmkompany is a great basis to build a infantry assault around. Its expensive but because of the massive squad size it keeps fighting far longer than the smaller 8-10 man squads. Its 2LMGs per squad make it effective at range and while it doesnt have the firepower per man of a SMG platoon that number of men still put out a collosal weight of fire. Their big advantage is that you can lose 3 men from a sturmkompany squad and still have a 10 man 2LMG unit whilst in an 8 man SMG squad even losing 2 men makes the firepower drop a lot.

[Redwolf]

If you buy the discounted big units, remember that the discount does not apply to victory points. It can hurt bad if you got a bunch of halftracks in an armored formation and pay a lot of points for the vehicle and crews if you lose them.

The fusiliers are a kind of multi-purpose infantry for the infantry divisions later in the war. They serve as reconnaissance, reserves and generally high-quality mobile troops.

The German started with a full reconnaissance (Aufklaerungs-) battalion in every division. But that was considered a too costly luxury for the vanilla infantry divisions, because these reconnaissance troops were too weak in actual combat and these divisions didn't have much use for specialized reconnaissance troops. So they took the Aufklaerungsbattalion away and replaced it with the Fusiliers who were high-quality men, doing the reconnaissance, but were strong enough to actually fight, especially as a mobile reserve for the division.

Later, when the Volksgrenadier divisions were formed, the vanilla infantry formations in those got a lot weaker, but the fusilier battalion was kept mostly the same. So suddenly the Fusiliere were the strongest unit in these divisions by all measures.

[David Chapuis]

The best all around infantry squad is the fallschirmjaegers. Other than the sturmgruppe company, they have greater firepower at all ranges than any other squad(Gebirgsjaegers have slightly better firepower at less than 40 m & mot pz grn have slightly better at 250+m). In fact, they practically double the firepower of normal british squads at any range - and they are both 10 man squads. And you dont really have to pay much extra for them. They cost the same as ss mot pz grn and significantly less than sturmgruppe squads.

If I know that I will have so very close quarter fighting, and if my opponent doesnt mind mixing force types, I will pick a cheap VG platoon.

But if I could only have one German inf, it would definitely be fallschirmjaegers.

[JasonC]

On Arm Pz Gdrs as scouts, naturally scouts themselves break down to half squads. The idea is to minimize the force you risk in any one particularly dangerous spot. Leading half squads don't live long if fired on regardless of size or composition. It does help, though, if they can do something once they get someplace.

These get a 1 LMG fire team. If you send a squad that started with 2 faust, each can have one of those as well. Meanwhile you can deal with enemy outposts (lone MGs, half squads, etc) with one full squad traveling with the HQ behind the half squads.

On FJ compared to Mot Pz Gdrs, yes they have basically the same weapons (as the SS) at the single squad level. And yes each squad costs the same. But you also get off map 81mm mortars with each company, which don't pack much punch on offense (one for smoke is ok). You also must buy 1 schreck per platoon. Their armor support options are limited.

They aren't as cheap or effective as the Pz Gdrs in an overall force tailored for attacking, because of these differences above the individual squad level. On defense they are fine. Fausts and lots of schrecks give good close in AT defense, and against men with poor cover 81s are OK, while obviously the squads are strong.

You can get into ammo trouble, though, relying on squad fire at medium ranges (rather than HMGs). And they still need some ranged AT, from PAK or armor. Small defenses are their strongest suit, or relatively small meeting engagements. In a big attack, use Pz Gdrs.

[Sir Uber General]

FJ's are good if your opponent is unwise enough to allow force mixing, same with girbs, same with VG's really

[fridericus]

in my opinion no force built with combined weapons, could be gamey.

so i would never buy some 300mm-rochket-spotters, but i would never be angry, if one of my opponents would do so.

on german side, i use only one type of infantry: veteran sturmkompanie. one coy has the price of around 700 points, but it is worth every of them.

you have to add panzerschrecks or kuebel+pueppchen for at-ability.

a sturmkompanie is the only unit in cmbo, which is worth do get bought as veteran.

you can assault enemies positions with every platoon more then only one time each. all other inf-platoons arent able to attack twice.

in nearly 200 matches against human players i lost only 2 sturm-platoons.

[Beta1]

lol i lost the entire company (yes vets) assualting a town a few games ago. Got into the edges of the town but got caught out badly by some terrain I had misread and got caught in some rather nasty sideways fire (thought there was a ridge in between me and them, turned out to be just low enough to allow LOS)

But I agree vet stormkompany are pretty lethal.

Wish I didnt have to buy 6 75mm AT guns with them in BB

[meldorian]

Well, if you are the defender, those 6 super-cheap 75mm ATGs are a really nice extra. Put them into trenches and they are nearly as tough as 75mm-pillboxes that have a 360° field of fire.

[David Chapuis]

oops - double post when trying to edit

[ September 06, 2003, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Dodge ]

[David Chapuis]

First, after I posted my post about the superiority of FJ's, I did think about the ammo issue. I agree that Mot Pz Grd do beat them there.

There were a couple of things in your post concerning the FJ vs Mot Pz Grd that i kind of question, but since you're a grog and im not, I figure I just need some enlightening.

they have basically the same weapons (as the SS) at the single squad level.

The FJ do have a firepower advantage at ranges < 100m, albeit small over the SS ones, and i really like that. At ranges under 40m, the firepower advantage is over 10%. This seems a little more than just trivial to me, but that is because I really prefer close quarters inf assualts. Longer range assaults seem to take too long, and rarely succeed in getting the enemy to surrender a position. Since you always have to assualt people on attack, that makes me wonder about this statement:

They aren't as cheap or effective as the Pz Gdrs in an overall force tailored for attacking

In attacking, you eventually have to send in the infantry to clear out a position, and that 1 SMG (compared to SS) or 2SMG(compared to heer) addition seems to be a significant advantage - well at least I have to.

Am I just using bad tactics (those will be explained further below)?

differences above the individual squad level. ... But you also get off map 81mm mortars with each company, which don't pack much punch on offense (one for smoke is ok).

At the company level, FJ still seem like a better buy than the mot Pz Grd. The on map mortars that you get with the Pz Grd are much more expensive, and present less tactical options than the off map spotter. I really like the 81 mm off map spotter for his high ammo load. I use it as my primary gun killer, and for suppression before an infantry assualt - not the lone method of suppression, but in conjuction with AFV's usually. (I have read where you prefer art that will kill people, but I just find that too expensive to buy - I play smaller QB's 1500 points or less). Admittedly, the on map mortar will suppress a single unit better than the off map, but suppressing one unit doesnt help a whole lot when assaulting a platoon - and most people keep their platoons together. Three on map mortars would do the job, but they are more expensive than one off map, and have half the ammo load.

Concerning the schreks, in most cases I would prefer having to purchase 3 schreks than 4 HMG's, except on a map with little tree cover. But maybe that is because I am just not very good with MG's in general. I have never found them effective enough to justify their price, especially the HMG (i do buy LMG occasionally - they are cheap).

But this might all go back to poor tactics on my part - especially regarding long range fire.

[ September 06, 2003, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Dodge ]