meldorian

Still, it is rather amazing that the US standard AP round is better than the Russian one. The Russian one is not only heavier, according to the data in CMBB it also has a slightly higher muzzle velocity. I would certainly expect it to penetrate better than the 76mm AP round, just because its kinetic energy should be somewhat higher.

Only over short distances. In long range engagements, neither can frontally hurt the other and it comes down to who gets a weak spot penetration first. As King Tigers have both more ammo and a higher rate of fire, the ueber cat is superior in these, at least in CMBB. But rejoice, the JSIII is faster, which should more or less compensate for the King Tiger's higher ammo loadout. edit: I once had this really fun fight between a platoon of Tiger 2s and 6 or so JSIIIs. I played the Russians and I won, but only after runnig out of AP rounds. The last King Tiger got battered by 122mm HE rounds until it retreated off the map. [ March 24, 2004, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: meldorian ]

Add my vote to the Jagdpanther. It really looks like a sports car with tracks. The scarriest IMO would be the JS-2. And be it only because of the huge BOOM its gun makes when it fires. I wish the would not have the "slow reload"-thing going, otherwise it would be a fantastic tank.

I have finally gotten hold of CMAC, and to me, it looks like the tanks are turning faster than in CMBB. Is this impression correct? Also, I noticed that penetration values for the US 76,2 mm gun are somewhat higher than in the older game. I tried them out against Panthers from moderate ranges (300 to 500 m), and the formerly tough cats died surprisingly quick. Does anyone know which game modelles historical vehicles and guns more accurately, CMAC or CMBB? Thanks

The Soviet troops would constantly drink the AT weapons. </font>

Ok, thanks. Concerning the value of Hetzers and Stugs, of course, you have to team them up with some self-propelled guns and a decent ammount of infantry. But if you do, they are very cost-efficient. IMHO, rediculously so. Looks like the same thing is true for CMAK, but I'll probably get the game nevertheless. BTW, how do the allies fare against the Panther in late '43 or early '44? Is it as bad as with the Russians? When do the British get Piats and the Firefly?

I know that, but thank you very much for pointing it out again. So, did the costs remain more or less the same or not?

Hi! In both CMBO and especially CMBB I personally found the German tanks to be underpriced, compared to the allied ones. Not so much the real tanks, but Hetzers and Stugs IMHO were a sure way to win any armor-battle. Is this still the case in CMAK? Could anyone tell me, how much some of the tanks are costing? Pz VI G, Panther, Tiger, Stuart, Wolverine, Sherman, Chruchill, Stug, Hetzer?

Well, if you are the defender, those 6 super-cheap 75mm ATGs are a really nice extra. Put them into trenches and they are nearly as tough as 75mm-pillboxes that have a 360° field of fire.

That's something I keep wondering about, too. Of course, both the 100mm and 122mm rounds do pretty well vs. Panthers in 1945, as far as I can tell. But what about which really is better against German heavy tanks? I have done some testing in 1.02 with SU100s and ISU122s vs. King Tigers and Panthers in 1945 to find out which round was better. At rather long ranges, ca. 500 to 1000 m, the 122m round had a better chance of killing the both, according to the kill chance stated by the game when I targeted the cats. But I haven't tried this with 1.03, yet. Some info would be nice. On a side note, does anyone know if these penetration values are really correct? Those 122mm rounds weigh about 25 kg, or 50 pounds. I just can't believe that a steel plate, even one half a feet thick, can withstand these monsters. Especially as the muzzle velocity isn't exactly low.

OMG! All three of them at once? I always suspected the Nazi's super-secret ray-gun they had developed on their secret base on the dark side of the moon (you know, the place where the Fuehrer is stored away in cryo-sleep while a bunch of Nazi-scientists try to clone him) had been included in CMBB. That explains a lot, though.

Oh, I am aware of that. But I really believed that I might be able to get one lone Hetzer with three of the latest versions of the "tinbucket". Next time, I will just run like hell whenever I meet one of those annoying bugs, dive for cover behind some woods and close range to 300 m. That should do it, I think.

So my experience really wasn't anything uncommon. Thanks. Sometimes I really wonder who came up with the point costs for the german tanks. Some of them really seem to be far to low. A vehicle that can only be defeated by either a JS2 or by flanking it shouldn't be that cheap.

Hi! I recently played a QB against the AI. As usually, I kept my tanks (3 T34/85, late model) behind my Infantry in order to spot enemy tanks before they spot my tanks. Unfortunately, this time, it didn't work, and one single, regular Hetzer sighted my 3 T34/85s at about 700m and opened fire. Everyone was in a hull-down position, so there weren't a lot of hits, and I fully expected my one regular and two unexperienced tanks to out-shot his one Hetzer. But no, the Hetzer destroyed one of my tanks and then retreated, even though he was hit several times to no effect. Later on, I got him in the flank, but there was another regular Hetzer which won a fight against the remaining two T34s. Are T34s really *that* bad? I mean, the Hetzer just got 60mm of armor, so why the hell is this stupid thing invulnerable to my 85mm rounds? If I can't penetrate the frontal armor of a King Tiger ok, after all, I can buy an entire platoon of T34/85s for what one of those monsters costs. But Hetzers?

Hi! A friend I use to play CMBB with has installed XP on his computer. CMBB runs just fine, only if we try to start a TCP/IP-game, he gets a blank screen instead of a map. The sound is there, and my computer obviously "sees" his, as I am able to send him messages (which he cannot see because of the black screen). The funny thing is that we can circumvent this problem by setting force-selection to "auto". It only happens, if he chooses his own troops. He is using a Geforce 2MX400, but the problem is there with both an old driver version (2.something) and the newest detonator driver. What the hell is going on? I could understand if the problem turns up everytime (something problem with the Nvidia-drivers), but only under these rather special circumstances????

Yes, that sounds like a nice idea. I will try it out on Friday. Thanks.

1.) KTs are +30% most of the time. Considering that the SU-100, the ISU-122, and the IS-2 are always at least +20%, too, that is hardly prohibitive, considering the KT's invulnerability. 2.) The 57mm can penetrate the Tiger's frontal armor, but not the KT's. Well, maybe it can, but only with tungsten rounds and not any better than the 122mm AP-rounds used in 45. And with those, I needed several round of constant pounding to kill three out of four KTs (the fourth retreated, I had 5 IS-3s firing from point-blank range). Then again, the 57mm gun is really cheap without rarity, so maybe I should give it a try. But I am highly sceptical about this. Have you tried it out or are you making an educated guess? [ April 16, 2003, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: meldorian ]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Concerning aircraft vs. Kingtigers, forget it. The problem is that the big bombs capable of killing the tank never hit while the cannons are no real danger. I have even set up QBs where I simply placed half a dozen KTs on open terrain and just watched the equivalent in terms of points in Russain bombers attack them for 20 turns. The planes managed to kill one or two commanders and immobilize one or two tanks, but that's about it.

Hi! I often play CMBB against a friend. We usually play with the settings meeting engagement, between 1500 and 2000 points, and free force selection. Now my problem is that whenever we play 1944 or 45, my friend, who insists on playing the Germans, *always* chooses a bunch of Tiger IIs and some infantry. As he normally buys at least three Kingtigers, he has enough to have one KT protecting each of his flanks, so flanking him is nearly impossible, especially as he uses a few squads of infantry as scouts on the flanks. Until now, whenever I tried to flank him with tanks, he always managed to turn at least one of the super-cats before I got there, which results in tactical AI withdrawing my armor. Frontal engagements are sucide at best. So how the hell am I supposed to win against this stupid tactic of his? The only thing I noticed is that the T34/85's tungsten round can sometimes penetrate the KT's frontal armor, and, of course, the IS-3 can stand up to the KT and win a prolonged engagement due to numerical superiority (the IS-3 is cheaper than the KT). I have tried assaults with infantry after dealing with the German infantry, but those guard smg squads don't seem to be able to damage the heavy tank even from 10m away. What do I do? Except demanding that he no longer takes so many Kingtigers, of course.

You have to keep in mind that the 88mm Flak had been desinged to kill high flying planes. It just had to have optics capable of targeting things several kilometers away. So if the crew got a line of sight to a tank 5 km away, I don't see any problem at all with the gun hitting the tank, at least *sometimes*. The rest depends on the tank's armor.

I have played three QBs yesterday in which I had to play the Russians. I knew how much my enemy likes cats, so I thought I would be one clever guy and bought lots of planes. A total of 700 points worth of aircraft didn't manage to destroy even one enemy tank in two 2000 pt. QBs. And that in spite of my enemy not buying a single AA gun. He just moved his tanks over an open plane at relativly slow speed (Kingtigers and hunting Panthers). So what do you call effective?

But those stupid bombs don't hit either!

Hi! I have tried to stop German Kingtigers and Panthers with air attacks in two recent games. I tried Il2s and that cheaper plane that only costs 140 points and is armed with a 37mm gun and 6 rockets. But these things never seem to hit! The only result I got out of 700 points worth of planes in two games is one inmobilized Panther. And that is not because the German player had AA guns or moved the tanks into cover. They were slowly moving over plains during all attacks. But the aircraft either didn't even hit or caused no damage. I should also note I had bought experienced aircraft because I thought they would be more likly to hit their targets. Is there some trick to successfully using aircraft? Should I by more of them with lower experience or perhaps hardned planes instead of experienced and regular ones?

Hi! I have the same problem with the Russians. Their infantry cannot harm the German tanks. Concerning infantry close assault, have you actually tried it successfully? I remember that one QB vs. a human opponent where I had a guards SMG/LMG platoon, all regulars. We were playing in 1945. They had their hand grenades and a few molotov cocktails, my opponent had this Lynx standing around next to the wood my Russians were hiding in. I sneaked up on him with the whole platoon, distance was less than 20 m. They threw their stuff at the PZ II........and nothing happened! I got three or four messages saying "shot deflected" and that's it! The Lynx retreated, opened fire from between 25 and 50 m and routed the platoon. By now, I have given up on killing German tanks with anything but armor. The AT-guns (with rarity on) are so expensive that you can as well buy a T-34, unless you want to get a 45mm, which is nearly useless. Of course, there are those AT-rifles. But I had one ATR hit a self propelled gun (sigsomething, with a 15 cm gun) nearly a dozen times and nothing happened, inspite of at least 5 penetrations. The one thing I have not tried yet are those tank hunter teams and Ampoulets (sp?). How close do you need to get to the tank to stand any chance? And do they work against Pz IVs, StuGs, and Cats?

But that is the problem! The T-34 is by no means "cheap", it's as expensive as the later versions of the Pz III with the 50mm/L60 gun. And it doesn't even get radios. I personally don't believe that CMBB is balanced. The Russians simply suck. I would rather play the Americans in CMBO in June '44 and fight Panthers and Tigers with Shermans and Wolverines than face a platoon of Pz IV Gs with twice their number in T-34s. The problem is, you won't get that many T-34s for what the German player is paying for his platoon.