Vitalis Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 I have read many posts here talking about how one simple tragedy can ruin or nearly ruin the game for you. I just encountered that last night. I am using the Gold Demo, I know I know, but it is all I have right now, and playing that scenario where the Germans have to defend against an American attack at the Zigfried Line. I was playing full Fog of War and Computer +3 experience. Stupid fricken Americans got a lucky hit on my 75mm pill box in the second minute of the game and knocked it out. THEN their reinforcements of five more tanks showed up in a few minutes and I had to sit and endure tank direct fire and arty pounding for 10 more rounds until my Panther and single fricken platoon of infantry showed up. sheesh, what a pain in the butt, I still managed an Axis total victory, but at an enormous cost in manpower and equipment. Horrific casualties. And it took FOREVER to hunt down those stupid Shermans, that Panther couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Beginning turn it arrived, it had an instant side shot on an exposed Sherman. Side shot, 380 meters, 60% chance to hit, Kill: Excellent. It missed every shot that turn and the Sherman hit the Panter SIX times. Thank the War Gods for thick frontal armor. rrrrrrrrrrrrr Was a pain in the butt game to be sure. Vitalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 It is hard for some people, especially those familiar with more conventional wargames, to adjust to the "**** happens" factor in CM. That's because, going back to board wargames with six sided dice, wargame designers have always (or almost always) filtered out the more unlikely events from their various resolution tables. The result is that we would get very predictable results from attacks, etc. CM, on the other hand, has left in all those wild card happenings that occurred in real life that could suddenly throw the tide of battle one way or the other. It's a new kind of wargaming experience and a lot of players, I expect especially the old hands, will miss the security of more predictable results. I don't, but then I'm always sure to bring a lot of force to the party to be sure to handle those unexpected turns. Gosh darn, that's just what good commanders did in real life too! Whaddaya know about that? :cool: Michael [ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: Michael emrys ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van_Gogh Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 I simply don´t believe your story, especially the claim that U got a total victory as american, since the AI usually surrender beforehand and the end result is at best a Major Victory (since U must have taken some casualties as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skorpion Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 Not related to Valley of Trouble, but as an illustration of luck in this game: I just finished playing a scenario where one of my polish 2" mortars took out a Panther G (a PANTHER G!) when it drove into the barrage. Got a weak spot penetration on the side of the turret. I laughed so hard... and then razed his town to the ground with my remaining armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitalis Posted April 10, 2001 Author Share Posted April 10, 2001 Believe me or not Van Gogh. Maybe it was a Major Victory, I know it wasn't a tactical, it was above that. I was happy about it, and it went the full 35 turns. So if it was Major instead of total, then my screw up. What ever. But it did happen. Very frustrating to sit there ten or so turns and watch these tanks hammer you into oblivion because you can't get your schreks close enough for a kill. The damn schreks were shooting like mad, but just like the Panther, seemed to have been trained at the Close Your Eyes and Shoot Acadamy of Berlin. Total pain in the butt.. Vitalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 Couldn't have said it any better than Michael- CM has a great S*** happens factor. On panzershrecks, don't try any shots longer than 60m. Hide them, and wait for the tanks to come to them, not the other way around. Also, in the newest version (of the full game) bunkers are much harder to kill with tanks at long range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted April 14, 2001 Share Posted April 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vitalis: Total pain in the butt.. Vitalis<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> especially for the guys who were getting killed cm tries to be realistic, and you suffer if your tanks are wiped out but the enemy still has his... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 15, 2001 Share Posted April 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van_Gogh: I simply don´t believe your story, especially the claim that U got a total victory as american, since the AI usually surrender beforehand and the end result is at best a Major Victory (since U must have taken some casualties as well).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Regardless of whether or not Vitalis' story is true, I've gotten total victories several times, and in every case I've had some casualties. I think the key is having a really great last turn before the AI can surrender. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafard Posted April 17, 2001 Share Posted April 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van_Gogh: I simply don´t believe your story, especially the claim that U got a total victory as american, since the AI usually surrender beforehand and the end result is at best a Major Victory (since U must have taken some casualties as well).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hi all, This is my first post on CM forums, since i just received the full game last week... So, i'm not a specialist with all game mechanics. Anyway, i already happened to achieve total victories too, even with casualties. Last one was 2 days ago only, on "Aachen" scenario, playing with americans, while even losing my Priest to panzershreck fire. I'm glad the AI doesn't *always* surrender automatically when facing a major defeat, i'd be too sad not to achieve my long prepared battle plans in full. Cafard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Cline Posted April 20, 2001 Share Posted April 20, 2001 This will be my first post, so here goes. I have had the game for only a short time now, but from what I have read, a modification in the full version makes it much harder to knock out pillboxes at range, and I believe it 100%. I recently played the west wall scenario, and my MG pillbox took at least 20 rounds of tank fire b4 being abandoned. S***. There's the bell, got to go. (school) :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van_Gogh Posted April 20, 2001 Share Posted April 20, 2001 Clarification: I did by no means intend to claim that it is impossible to get Total Victories, I have scored quite a few myself. My claim was simply that U are unlikely to score a Total Vic. as german player in the west wall demo scenario given the nature of that scenario and the behaviour of the AI. And Vitalis himself confirms that it probably was a Major Vic. rater than a total that he scored. [ 04-21-2001: Message edited by: Van_Gogh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitalis Posted April 21, 2001 Author Share Posted April 21, 2001 Van_Gogh, Ok, I understand better now. And I know totally what you mean. And I actually have achieved two Total Victories as the Germans in this scenario as well while fighting against the AI. But again, I attribute it to freaky luck and just plain dumb AI tactics. My 75 in the pillbox had destroyed ALL the allied armor before my Panther showed up. The allied FO's did nothing but drop smoke rounds instead of using that awesome firepower to drop some serious arty on me. And their platoons travelled in packs and got wasted by several ambushes. Vitalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 Vitalas, the AI likes to drop a lot of smoke. And it's not dumb tactics but actually the prefered method of negating a pillbox with artillery (unless you get some really big guns). If the pillbox can't see it can't shoot. Hope you order the full version, you'll really enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Killer Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 I am expecting the game today or tomorow (hopefully) but I have the demo. I've had a couple upsetting battles in the valley scenario. Just a couple minutes ago I had 7 shermans taken out by 1 75mm AT pillbox on a hill and a 150mm Inf. gun in some trees. Eventually I killed the Inf. gun w/ my last Sherman (thankfully a 76mm) by staying behind hills and with alot of infantry cover. After killing the gun I advanced into the town with 2 rifle squads 1-2 houses ahead of me to prevent a disaster. I leveled the town earlier with off board arty fire for the most part so I just breezed through there. I then moved up the hill and hunkered down about 30 meters below the summit. I moved behind a small mound to provide cover from the Panther as I started shooting at the pillbox 75mm. I was out of it's field of view so it was an easy kill. After that was done I reversed back onto the road and moved up onto the sumit of the hill to find a Panther laying in wait. As I started to traverse my turret to meet the Panther it got a shot off, penetrating the thin armor and bouncing around inside killing one of my crew, shocking the rest. After my men regained composure they started throwing shells at the panther with no prevail. Eventually after an exchange of about 4 shells the Panther scored an easy 60 meter kill shot. The panther, feeling confident, moved to the top of the hill and was ambushed by a bazooka on either side. The Panther was killed after 1 round of fire and I came out with a win, 126 troops KIA, 8 tanks lost, and 3 mortars destroyed. I hate those darn pillboxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 The final version of the game has made it more difficult to get "Firing Slit Penetration" hits on pillboxes. I remember from the demo that the times I played Valley of Trouble (either side) Firing Slit hits were very common. Not so easy now, lots more "Internal Armor Flaking" type hits or "No Major Damage". Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnee Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 The first time I played the demo, I took a shot at the pillbox and it immediately flamed up, and damn, I don't think that's happened since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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