EvoRoadster Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Sounds like a song from the 40's. Anyway, I just finished a scenario where it was raining. I was unable to get my 60mm mortars to target anything. LOS was limited to 98m. I had the mortar teams under HQ control but they would not fire at any targets the HQ had in LOS and yes the minimum distance from the mortar team was >100m. What gives. One other anomoly happened in yet another scenario. I had a HT besides a building, it moved up to fire and then reversed back behind the building. My esteemed opponents Sherman fired a round which went right through the building, on a diagonal, and hit the HT. Were the windows of the building open??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Meyer Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 1) Don't know 2) Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Originally posted by EvoRoadster: Sounds like a song from the 40's. Anyway, I just finished a scenario where it was raining. I was unable to get my 60mm mortars to target anything. LOS was limited to 98m. I had the mortar teams under HQ control but they would not fire at any targets the HQ had in LOS and yes the minimum distance from the mortar team was >100m. What gives. Game worked the way it's supposed to. Minimum range for mortars is 100m. When playing in the rain, use your strongest HQ to hopeufully target things far enough away for the mortars to bring under fire (they seem to get a little twitchy about pointing their tubes straight up) and yet stay in control of the Mortar men. [ March 27, 2002, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Compassion ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoRoadster Posted March 27, 2002 Author Share Posted March 27, 2002 Thats what I said, the mortars were under HQ control and the LOS the HQ had was in excess of 100m from the mortar teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 I could fire 60mm mortars the HQ way in visibility unter 100m. Are you absolutely sure you are trying to set indirect fire to a spot that is visible for the HQ? Do you get a yellow or a red line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoRoadster Posted March 27, 2002 Author Share Posted March 27, 2002 I would get a blue line from the HQ when checking LOS and a red line for the mortar. The mortar target command would never "set". In previous games using a HQ to spot for mortars the red line from the mortar team would set and the team would fire. Hey, I will be the first to admit I was doing it wrong but I had success in the past in clear weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 When a mortor is trying to fire while in command radius of a HQ the line from the mortar to the target needs to be that yellow-orange color. If it's red it's trying to do direct fire and since LOS was 98m as you stated in a previous post, it would not be able to target because it can't see. Must have been thick stuff you were fighting in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoRoadster Posted March 27, 2002 Author Share Posted March 27, 2002 You guys are probably correct. I thought I was doing it right but must of been missing something. Thanks for your help and patience. It sure would of been nice to have those mortars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Originally posted by EvoRoadster: ... I had the mortar teams under HQ control but they would not fire at any targets the HQ had in LOS and yes the minimum distance from the mortar team was >100m. What gives.There is some information wrong or missing here.... if you wish send me the file (se my profile) ... One other anomoly happened in yet another scenario. I had a HT besides a building, it moved up to fire and then reversed back behind the building. My esteemed opponents Sherman fired a round which went right through the building, on a diagonal, and hit the HT. Were the windows of the building open???CM apparently violates one fundamental law of the Einstein physics… nothing is instantaneous! :eek: Or yet, for those of you even more fanatical… CM forgets that in order to make a gun projectile to travel at the current speed of a computer calculation, the projectile would almost not have no mass and be almost only energy. When the calculation was done the HT was within LOS and the shot “hit” the HT in the computer’s “mind”… Will try to concretize... In CM, the projectile identity, contrary to what happens in real live, doesn’t exist (after knowing this don’t put your live to an end ), In its place there is a mathematical result that virtually INSTANTANEOUSLY determines the “score” … Don’t get me wrong, those Physical/Mathematical calculations aren’t simple or random, a lot went into them and they are the pride and backbone of CM (If you dare, try ask Charles for the formulas :cool: ). When the video representation showed up (AFTER the calculations) for your delight the HT was already behind the house and you sow the projectile going right through the building. Some of us with more imaginative minds, say it went by 2 windows… Others with an even more imaginative mind say that this is how the war will be in the year 3000 if fought with 1945 vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Tank shells can go THROUGH whole houses and buildings, the manual explicitly states this. While it is more realistic for HE though...what with the blast effect and all. Houses are far from being a 100% reliable cover for your AFVs. I once lost two Shermans (one was Vet.)- I used a house as cover from two enemy tanks whose position was known, and they still got LOS *though* the house. To add to the bizarro factor, both Sherman took *non-KO* side penetrations (1 each) before kicking the bucket on the next shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 What Silvio Manuel states has only to do with LOS and buildings and not with MOVING targets (specially fast moving) LOS and blocking structures (buildings and hills)... I’m not sure what he is describing, but I think it is a known deficiency…. You can position an AFV in such a position behind the building, that it will see right through it. Just put it very, very near the building wall and look for the spot, but be warned that it is considered cheating… if it is any other strange thing, once again, the file would be welcome. As for what is stated in the manual, think about it like this… You can read and understand whatever you want, as stated in my previous post; player’s imagination does the job… after all this is a game I can do a number of tests where a C charge will go by 2 walls… To the more “imaginative” ones, that C charge just found out 2 open windows exactly in the same trajectory… but when I do this test with a hill instead of a building….then the number of imaginative ones goes down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Originally posted by Tanaka: What Silvio Manuel states has only to do with LOS and buildings and not with MOVING targets (specially fast moving) LOS and blocking structures (buildings and hills)... Both things exist, and none is an actual problem. 1) LOS can go through a house. BTW sometimes you get LOS through the house but the shell does not go through, that usually kills Hummels and Wespe standing in front of houses. 2) Whether a hit on armor hits or not is computed based on probablity, and the computation is made for the places they are in at the start of the shot. If the computer decided at this point in time that the shot will hit, then the shell will travel to whetherever the target is at the end of the shell travel time - if needed around corners. And BTW, the corners of houses are always transparent. That becomes especially important in town games, where you can usually see and shoot throw the point where two buildings join there corners (if they don't join walls). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tanaka: ...with MOVING targets (specially fast moving) LOS and blocking structures (buildings and hills)... ...things exist, and none is an actual problem...</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 To visualize the situation Evo's describing, see in your mind a triangle with the mortar, the HQ, and the target as the 3 vertices. The distance between the mortar and target is, let's say, 125m so the mortar cannot see the target given the stated visibility limit. The distance between HQ and target is only 70m, so it CAN see the target. The distance between mortar and HQ is small enough that the mortar is in command of that HQ. If this is an accurate visualization, then I can't explain why the mortar refused to fire. Can you describe other factors? What was their experience/morale status? DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Maybe the mortar had just moved and was still 'reloading' i.e. getting ready to fire again? This can take a while. Or maybe the mortar had moved some minutes previously, was immediately put on 'hide' and hence still had to get ready to fire. If you move and immediately hide a mortar it will still have to set up again before firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Check your pointer when targetting indirectly with mortars : it will say 'Area fire' when the HQ the mortar is under can see the point you are targetting. Easiest way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoRoadster Posted March 29, 2002 Author Share Posted March 29, 2002 Doug's description hit it right on the head. No the mortars were not under fire nor were they hiding. None of them had fired even 1 round at any time. Unfortunately I do not have the files saved so I can't revisit the situation. I am however in another game, also in the rain but with Canuks instead of Yanks. I hope those 2-inchers work as advertised because I sure don't like having to attack without some softening up first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 My understand was the only 81mm mortars could use HQs for LOS, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Originally posted by Panzerman: My understand was the only 81mm mortars could use HQs for LOS, but I could be wrong.You are. All non-vehicular mortars can use spotters. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Evo, Regarding the protection houses afford: See my earlier post called Unexpected Vulnerability which I bumped to the top of this Forum. duck !! Toad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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