Thin Red Line Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 The Ardennes. It's snowing and the night has fallen. My US glider infantry has a bunch of 60 mm mortars but the distance they can see (40m?)is below their range. Do you have any idea if the mortar teams can be of any use in such conditions ? Or should they remain hidden until the daylight comes ? [ August 12, 2002, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tacticus Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 Originally posted by Thin Red Line: The Ardennes. It's snowing and the night has fallen. My US glider infantry has a bunch of 60 mm mortars but the distance they can see (40m?)is below their range. Do you have any idea if the mortar teams can be of any use in such conditions ? Or should they remain hidden until the daylight comes ?Use them indirectly - their command section should be able to see ~40m...set the mortars as far behind the command section as possible - you may need a command bonus in order to reach the ~100m(?)(ie ~40m + ~60m) range needed. The mortars are then used to supplement the infantry platoon by firing at the general area (ie about 40m in front of your guys) of the enemy.... If you don't have a command bonus, and one is actually needed (I don't know..)...I'm not sure what you can do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted August 9, 2002 Author Share Posted August 9, 2002 Good idea but maybe difficult to implement i don't really have a stabilized front line, i've to use the ambush tactics because the germs have plenty of armor...They are more or less surroundering me now. Also i'm not sure all my commanders have that radius bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 This is the main reason why i prefer the British 2" mortars to the 60mm variant, they can be used even in foggy nights. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 If you have a TRP and you don't move the Mortars they can fire at the TRP without LOS. Otherwise as mentioned use a HQ with a bonus to put them as far behind a HQ as possible. Failing all that, put them to the rear and keep them out of harms way... H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted August 9, 2002 Author Share Posted August 9, 2002 Originally posted by Holien: If you have a TRP and you don't move the Mortars they can fire at the TRP without LOS. Hey, that's great ! I did'nt know that and i have plenty of TRP ! That scenario designer is smart after all. Thanks a lot Holien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 just to re-emphasize. DON'T move the mortars if you want to fire on the TRPs. If they move they lose the indirect TRP firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 TRP placement is an art and I would love to learn it. I have just finished playing a game where I had plenty of TRP's but placed all of them in bad locations. Has anyone any advice on how to choose locations for TRP's? In Fact I shall start a new thread... Above all place your mortars well back from the expected action and do not move them until you have run out of ammo. CDIC played me in ROWI in a night game and failed to understand the use of TRP's this lost him the game. In other games I have played TRP's have won the game for me when I have placed them well. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 QUOTE]Originally posted by Holien: Has anyone any advice on how to choose locations for TRP's? H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfgardner1 Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 Originally posted by xerxes: just to re-emphasize. DON'T move the mortars if you want to fire on the TRPs. If they move they lose the indirect TRP firing.Hey, this is something I never knew!!! Thanks xerxes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 Too bad I can't give any advice on TRP placement, mine are almost always in the wrong place. After the battle I always find good spots that would've worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 About the best thing you can do is not bunch them up. In a current probe in which I am defending, I bought 4. I placed them all in likely avenues of approach, in 4 different patches of trees. Needless to say, he can't bypass them all. In fact, I see two companies heading near one now. Patience.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Actually I do know one good place. I'll place them in heavy woods where I can't get LOS. Then when my screen detects significant infantry I can call down the arty with decent response time and spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Schultz Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 If you have the spare points for it try this one ... Place TRPs in any assembly area the enemy may use that is reachable on his 1st turn. Out of LOS fire takes about 45 seconds. His troops start moving into their assembly area and get there at the same time as the first rounds. Few rounds are expended and he gets a 1st turn wake up call. Expect cursing in response. If there are only 2 or 3 obvious assembly areas this can really pay off as the enemy will most likely still be tightly grouped; as who the heck expects arty on turn 1? Large bore arty is best for this. Day or night, clear or fog, getting your troops plastered on the 1st turn is bound to have an effect on a strategy. If there are too many possible areas, then disregard this and use the other excellent suggestions above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tacticus Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Originally posted by Sgt. Schultz: If you have the spare points for it try this one ... Place TRPs in any assembly area the enemy may use that is reachable on his 1st turn. Out of LOS fire takes about 45 seconds. His troops start moving into their assembly area and get there at the same time as the first rounds. Few rounds are expended and he gets a 1st turn wake up call. Expect cursing in response. If there are only 2 or 3 obvious assembly areas this can really pay off as the enemy will most likely still be tightly grouped; as who the heck expects arty on turn 1? Large bore arty is best for this. Day or night, clear or fog, getting your troops plastered on the 1st turn is bound to have an effect on a strategy. If there are too many possible areas, then disregard this and use the other excellent suggestions above.Possibly regarded as "gamey" : It relies on the defender knowing to the minute when the attacking force will arrive at these points (ie at turn one) - if there is noone over looking these positions how does your commander actually know....still, it is sneaky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 I don't think using an educated guess to put fire into a suspected area of enemy concentration is gamey. I think it is called Interdiction. Sometimes battlefield terrain just begs to be plastered even if you don't actually see the enemy there. If it works, you're a genius. If it dosen't, you're a fool. ............ Toad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tacticus Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Originally posted by Louie the Toad: I don't think using an educated guess to put fire into a suspected area of enemy concentration is gamey. I think it is called Interdiction. Sometimes battlefield terrain just begs to be plastered even if you don't actually see the enemy there. If it works, you're a genius. If it dosen't, you're a fool. ............ ToadI agree with you - sort of. My concern with this tactic is that I imagine that as a defender (in RL)(unless you have units overlooking the points in question), you don't know down to the minute when the enemy gets onto your map. Instead, the information you recieve is more likely to be along the lines of "Expect an attack in the next ten minutes...". In this case, (ie the enemy sets up in any of the turns from 1-10...) how do you interdict them ??? I think that this aspect of artillery is beyond the scope of most CM battles (ie it occurs on the approaches to the battle field {which are off the map in most cases}). LOL We could argue this all day, I suppose. [ August 10, 2002, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: General Tacticus ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 No need to argue really. If someone lays artillery on turn one with me, well, that's what the blacklist is for. There's plenty of other opponents out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 What a load of tripe - there's a zillion reasons a defender might know you're coming tht aren't covered in CM. Get a life and get over it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Just one small thing to add. If you place a TRP with no LOS to it how will you know if the enemy is there. I have done this in the past and it does not work or is too much of a gamble to waste all those points. Place TRP's where you can just about see or just behind where you can see to. Artillery is way too expensive to waste on empty ground and correct use can win the game for you. Always remember the cost of a unit and then you tend to use it more wisely. I just had a game where I had a 150 spotter (green) and while I messed up the TRP's I still managed to win and that was through good use of the 150 on actual visable targets. The TRP's would have helped big time but use arty on targets that you know exist. It is too important otherwise to waste. On another point I had a chap who used all his big hitters on empty buildings in the belief that I was in there in force. He was scared to move his spotter closer to the action to get good LOS and had no TRP's. As Fionn (I think it was F) would say if you are scared to lose a unit then it aint doing you any good. Move the spotter forward behind your forces and get LOS otherwise the arty is really wasted. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyched Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Originally posted by GenSplatton: No need to argue really. If someone lays artillery on turn one with me, well, that's what the blacklist is for. There's plenty of other opponents out there.A little harsh, I think. In fact, in CMBB, you will now have the opportunity to lay artillery rounds that land immediately after setup, representing communication and coordination between spotters and artillery PRIOR to Turn One. This feature was added in order to represent the real-life ability to attack a suspected line of an enemy advance even before they are sighted. Hardly gamey, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 In a QB it would certainly look a lot more gamey then in a scenario. In a QB you're using knowledge of exact setup zones to figure where to target. In a scenario you don't have the same degree of knowledge about the OPFOR unless it was given to you in the briefing. If the briefing tells you the enemy will be a point X in 1 minute it would be totally legitimate to target the area. Since I don't play QBs I have no problem with first turn targeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Exactly Marc. And as for the Get a life and get over it!! comment, no need to get over anything. I think it is gamey in a QB to do it. Therefore, if someone does, I won't play them again, period. Afraid it's you that will have to get over it. And maybe, just maybe, you should take time to realize that your opinion isn't the only, and right, one. Perhaps this thread hits a nerve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athkatla Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 I think this whole question of "gamey" is a load of bull. If it's in the game, and it's able to be done without using a cheat or whatever, then what's the problem? It's the same for everyone, next you'll be saying it's gamey to use arty on infantry, cos they can't fire back at it cos it's out of sight. Come on guys, don't get so serious, if it's in the game, it's in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 I'm hardly "serious" about CM. I just don't like someone coming in here and telling me what my opinion should be. It's my opinion, I'll think and feel what I please. I'm not looking for anyone's approval. I didn't ask for anyone's opinion. My opinion is mine and it will be what I please. If I think it's gamey, then to me it is and that's all that matters. So, if someone does it and I think it's wrong, I won't play them again. If he has a problem with that, well, then like I said, it's his problem, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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