Hungarian Tigers

[Adam T]

I wrote earlier about Hungarian Tigers in the modelling contest topic. Now I can prove that they existed, and fought on the East Front! I've found an article in the 1997/2 issue of the hungarian military magazine "Haditechnika". I try to translate the most important parts of the story. So KwazyDog and BTS guyz read on, and include that Hungarian Tigers in CMBB!

In early 1944 the East Front was moving to the Northeast-Carpatians, endangering the borders of Hungary. So the Hungarian supreme command ordered the mobilization of the 2nd Armor Division (2. Páncéloshadosztály). The strongest unit of the division was the 3rd Tank Regiment, equipped with Turán-75 (75mm cannon), and Turán-40 (40mm cannon) tanks. It was planned to use the division within the borders of Hungary, but the Germans occupied the country on 19th of March, 1944. The german influence become stronger and stronger in the controlling the units of the Hungarian Royal Defence Force.

So on 29th of March, 1944 the 2nd Armor Division was ordered to fill the gap between the german North- and Sout-Ukranian Army Group, in control of the 1. Hungarian Army, outside the Carpatians, in Galícia.

The transports of the 2nd Armor Div. arrived to ther deployment area, near to Stryj, between 5th and 11th of April. From here, they moved 250-300kms on their own wheels to Bolechow-Dolina, in melting snow, and mud. As soon as they arrived, they got tasks, because the germans hadn't got forces in the area, about 60-70km in the frontline.

The first part of the operation was to take the Stanislau - Delatyn road, and secure bridgeheads on river Bistrice, needed to the further advance. The 2nd Armor Div. successfully was done the task by 19th of April. They take city of Nadworna, and made two bridgeheads on the eastern bank of the Bistrica. It was the first mission of the Turáns. Although they managed to knock out two T-34s, but it become clear, that they not good enough both in firepower and armor. The T-34 could destroy the Turáns form 1500-2000m. The Turán-75 could destroy the T-34 from 600, the Turán-40 from 400m.

The second part of the operations was advancing from the eastern Carpatian forests, and take Kolomea. The trucks and cars stucked in the muddy forest terrain. The Turáns also had problems because of their narrow tracks. The Turáns had to tow the trucks, and transport the supplies, so they broke down more frequently. So the Soviets stopped the Hungarian advance. The attack (launched on 20th of April 1944) broke down 2km west from Sloboda Lesna and Pocharnyk. The units of the 2nd Armor Div. were removed from the frontline since 4th of May. They received their first maintenance since the beginning of the operations. The division suffered heavy losses. The frontline operations temporarly paused.

The commanders of the 2nd Armor Div. were greatly satisfied with the performance of the division. General Model, the commander of Army Group North-Ukraina also admitted, that the standstill of the russians was because the hungarians. He said that the hungarian armor troops achieved wonderful results, and they could do even more with more modern tanks.

So Model ordered the strengthening of the 2nd Armor Div. (and to replace the losses) with germans tanks. These tanks previously used by that german forces, that helped the hungarian advance.

The hungarian 3rd Armor Regiment recieved the german equipment in Nadworna. They got 12 Pz.IV.Hs, 10 Stug.III.Gs and 10 Pz.VI.E Tigers. The vehicles were worn, and they included only the most important tools. The whole workshop equipment, and spare parts were completely missing. There is no written evidence about that the Hungarians received the tanks temporarly for the time of the operations, or permanently. Anyway, the vehicles continued to wear their original german paint schemes, turret numbers, and national signs. The Tigers originally belonged to the 503. Schwerpanzer Abteilung, and seen many battles between the Bug and Dnester rivers.

The german vehicles now belonged to the 3/I. Tank Batallion. The Tigers divided between the 2nd and the 3rd companies. The other two company got the PzIVs and the Stugs.

The hungarian crews ordered to re-training began their work enthusiastly. The thick armor (covered with zimmerit) of the Tiger, and the mighty 88mm cannon gave back their self-confidence, that lost in the Turáns in the earlier battles. Their battle-morale become even better, because they thought that these Tigers previously belonged to Rommel's legendary Afrika Korps. Anyway, the german trainers surprised how well-trained were the hungarian crews. The new Tiger crews reached the level of their trainers in very short time. The aimers, who previously got used to the inaccurate cannon of the Turán, made a great job with the 88. They could hit a tree in the middle from 2000m (!).

The debut of the hungarian Tigers was the guarding of Tlumaczky. They were divided to to platoons (2-3 tanks), and were ordered to the batallion HQ area. At the first line, at the companies was only one "hard skinned" spotter. They reported the new bushes suddenly growing form the ground, new trees, and engines noises they had heard. Then, in the late afternoon the panzers attacked. (In late afternoon the sun glared to the eyes of the enemy.) In one week they detsroyed 3 T-34s, at least a dozen bunkers, a lot of anti-tank guns, and an ammo-storage area.

The next mission was the defending of Stanislau. A soviet attack was threatening the city, so the 3rd Regiment transfered to the area. A Tiger group take Cziczow north from Stanislau. The danger to Stanislau paused for a while. But the russians broke the hungarian lines between Nadworna and Stanislau. The group tried to stop them at Czuczylow, but they couldn't stop the enemy advance. The retreating of the 1st Hungarian Army began tothe Carpatians. The Tigers covered the retreating. At Saturnia, two Tigers secured Hill 514. They knocked out 14 enemy tanks in 30 minutes!

But, on the retreating, most of the Tigers were lost. When they broke down, there were no towing vehicles to rescue them. And, because there were not enough fuel trucks, they often run out of fuel, and had been left behind. Others stuck in the mud, others were flanked by soviets in the forest. Until 25th of July, 7 of the 10 Tigers lost. The 3 remaining Tigers (out of order) were transported back to Germany. The soldiers of the 3rd Armor Regiment hadn't seen them anymore.

The short "guest appearance" proved, that the hungarian tank crews wasn't worse than the germans in terms of skill, professional knowledge. And they become mighty opponents of the soviets with the adequate weapons.

[Battlefront.com]

Already taken care of As a matter of fact, I just posted something about Hungarian Tigers in aother thread before you posted this one. I said something like "Hungarian's had Tigers. How many knew that?"

My sources said they received a total of 13 Tigers. Initially they had 10, but a further 3 were given as a birthday present to the commanding General, Major-General László Hollósy-Kuthy. I have a birthday coming up, so if anybody cares to give me a Tiger, it would be apreciated! No need to go all out, one will do just fine

There is also some mention of a second company being outfitted with German marked Tigers, but I don't think this is true. However, the Romanians reported capturing 2 Tigers intact and had planned on using them, but IIRC the Soviets confiscated them. It is likely that these were Hungarian crewed Tigers.

Hungarians also had a small force of Panthers.

Steve

[Adam T]

The article what I have read also mentioned additional Tigers: the germans promised two more Tigers, and 15 tons of supply (spare parts, tools), but it hadn't arrived by the end of the operations (24-25th of July).

About Panthers:

"A small number of Panthers, probably five, and probably G models, was sold to Hungary in 1944."

-from achtungpanzer.com. That's not too much information.

[Adam T]

One more thought about the 3 additional Tigers. I've got a theory: you wrote General Hollós-Kuthy got them for his birthday. Imagine that birthday party... I would drink for a week, if I would got a Tiger as a birthday present. Maybe Hollós-Kuthy and his men were also drunk, and they crashed their funky Tiger rides on their way back to home from a ukranian discotheque. So the memoires doesn't mention them.

[mensch]

Originally posted by Big Time Software:

I have a birthday coming up, so if anybody cares to give me a Tiger, it would be apreciated! No need to go all out, one will do just fine

Steve

Darnnit Steve I'm working as fast as I can on my 1/35scale model... it's even got Zimmermint.. or was that Spearamint.. hmm..

[MikeyD]

By coincidence, in the current issue of George Bradford's specialty pub "AFV News" (shipping at this very moment) are notes on the deployment of Hungarian Tigers, as well as other equipment (Hungarian Panthers, etc. too) Also a nice piece on pre-Africa Afrika Corps units. Nice little mag. Do you have YOUR subscription yet?

[Adam T]

I'm sure that's a good magazine, but foreign magazines are too expensive for me here in Hungary. I stay with "Haditechnika". It costs 240Ft (less then 1 USD), and it's not that bad.

[Mace]

The Japanese Armour Magazine, in their special on Axis AFVs, devoted quite a few pages on the Hungarian Tigers.

Unfortunately it's all in Japanese, and I can't read it!!!!!

(Some nice photos of the Hungarian Tigers in Action though)

Mace

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by Adam T:

Imagine that birthday party... I would drink for a week, if I would got a Tiger as a birthday present.

I think I would drink for a week if I just got to see a Tiger in person...mmmmm, hearing that engine and the sound of the beast making the ground rumble as it crawled along.

Come to think of it, I've heard of places that rent you a day tour on a working Panzer IV, it only costs ya about 5,000 USD.

Hoping for a big bonus this year, ;>

S.M.

[ January 30, 2002, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]

[hellfish]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

By coincidence, in the current issue of George Bradford's specialty pub "AFV News" (shipping at this very moment) are notes on the deployment of Hungarian Tigers, as well as other equipment (Hungarian Panthers, etc. too) Also a nice piece on pre-Africa Afrika Corps units. Nice little mag. Do you have YOUR subscription yet?

Is that the mag that is published, or somehow associated with the Aberdeen Proving Grounds' Ordnance Museum? If so, that's a great mag. I think I can get it at one of the chain bookstores around here. I have the Indonesian Army issue somewhere around here too. And the other historical studies that APG's OM do are great also - like the South African battle notes.

[Måkjager]

Ahhh Tiger ‘s Tiger’s everywhere

I have done some digging regarding the use of Tigers by the Hungarians and found the following.

“Combat History of Schwere panzer Abteilung 503”

Tiger-Lehr kompanie of the 1.Panzer-lehrgruppe Nordukraine.

“Soldiers from the 3./sPzAbt 503 trained Hungarian tankers on the Tiger at Nadworna , near stanislau ( southern poland ) during the time period 6-14 May 1944. Equipment shortages never did allow the issuance of Tigers to the Hungarians They were later equipped with the Pz IV with the long barrelled 7.5cm gun.”

There is also mention of award recommendations to be made from the Hungarians to 5 members of the Lehr Kompanie who gave any and all assistance to the training of the Hungarian crews.

The Lehr Kompanie rejoins the rest of the sPz Abt 503 at the end of May.

Tigers in Combat vol. I

May - sPz Abt 503 is ordered to undergo re-establishment and is transported to Ohrdorf.

The sPz 503 has seven Tigers left on strength of which 4 are handed over to the sPz Abt 509 and remain in service there.

sPz Abt 509 gathers in the area of Buczacz during 20/04/44 and is then transported to Kolomyja. It remains there as army reserve as well as a training unit for Hungarian crews who are to be trained on the Tiger I.

May - sPz abt 509 receives 24 brand new Tiger Is , 11 Tigers are sent for factory maintenance and 4 Tiger Is are taken over from sPzAbt 503.

Unit strength at the end of May is 46 Tigers of which 37 are operational.

June- 02/06/44 sPz abt 509 receives 6 new Tiger’s. Unit strength is now 52 Tigers

21/06/44 Unit relocates to Nadworna.

June-44 The unit receives 9 Tiger Is from the sPz Abt 501.

In contradiction to clear orders the unit delivers 14 worn out Tigers ( including all of the ex sPz Abt 501 Tiger’s) to the Hungarian Army. Three more of the old tanks are sent to the factory for maintenance.

Tigers on strength- 48

ex sPz Abt 503 +4 ex sPz Abt 501 + 9 = 61

Hungarian -14

Factory Maintenance - 3

Total sPz Abt 509 end of June +44

New Vanguard Nos. 5---Tiger I

On the 22 July 1944 three Tiger Is left the ordnance depot by rail for delivery to the Hungarian Army. In addition an unknown number of Tiger Is were acquired from s.H.pz Abt 503 or 509 who had been assigned to train the Hungarian crews.

Fin

It looks like the Hungarian’s might in fact have had access to between 14-17 Tiger Is from the numbers quoted above...though knowing how chaotic things were getting ( lost transports / commandeered materials etc.) they might not have got those 3 extra Tiger Is which i would suspect to be the “old” refurbished Tigers that were sent for factory maintenance by the sPzAbt 509 during June 1944. Might they be the “birthday present “ spoken of ?

I might also “read” into the belief of the Hungarians thinking that they had “Rommel Tiger’s “ was due to the fact that a Kompanie belonging to sPzAbt 501 was in action in North Africa during the war......and the morale building Jerry's spun the Hungarian crews a yarn that the Tigers that they were to get ( ex sPzAbt 501 and clapped out ) were Rommels very own.

Did you know THAT Steve hehehe.sorry its very bad bad me...i could'nt resist it....but its the paint fumes i tell ye ..thats where the blame lies

Regards

Måkjager

[MikeyD]

AFV News isn't the Aberdeen mag (its hated rival), it's a quarterly pub out of Canada. Dedicated to armor. No outside advertising. Been going for something like 35+ years now.

AND it said some VERY nice things about CM in a review when the game first came out, so the pub is definitely CM-friendly.

Here's the link to its related website:

http://www.activevr.com/afv/

[Battlefront.com]

Måkjager,

Very interesting stuff! I think I remember reading that some of the initial Tigers were found to be unservicable or were held back for training, so ony 10 of the initial batch were fielded. This was a fairly standard problem when getting second hand equipment from the Germans. There is one case where the Romanians received a bunch of heavily abused 38(T)s from Germany, of which only 1/3 were found to be servicable. Yet the Germans sold them as "ready for service". This clearly indicates that the Germans fudged their records when it suited them, which means perhaps one should question the 14 servicable Tigers they handed over to the Hungarians.

One thing I have learned in my research is that the Germans could not be trusted AT ALL when it came to arms sales. They were really, really bad.

Steve

[Adam T]

MakJager it's interesting what you wrote. I continued to gather information about hungarian Tigers and Panthers, and I found an article about hungarian Panthers, by Norbert Számvéber.

There were 5 of them, used by the 2nd. Armor Div. I./2. Company. (The same unit who used the Tigers in summer of '44.) The company commander was 1st lieutenant Ervin Tarczay. They received the Panthers on 5th of September 1944. (With 20 Panzer IVs.) The article describes lots of battles of the Panthers, they were even more effective then the Tigers, used in the summer.

And the roster of the 2nd Arm. Div. mentioned 5 battle ready Panthers, aaaand... 3 Tigers.

Here is the link, but I'm affraid Freeweb.hu addresses are working only in Hungary.

http://www.freeweb.hu/worldwar2/index.cgi?pg=pz5hun&bg=hun

There are a few pictures about the tanks: there is one, where the Hungarian crew is visible (grey uniform - germans wore black). It's a Panther Ausf. D (the one without the hull MG, with side-skirts). The camo seemes to be quite hasty. If you BTS guyz are interested in the article, I can translate it, or e-mail pictures about hungarian armor.