A.I. Scares "bahJEEPERS," out of area man.

[Gpig]

Last night I was playing a QB versus the A.I..\

This was a PROBE of russian defences.

I'd made it half way towards my objective with a platoon of Axis Recon troops.

I'd been battering the Russians with long range 20mm fire (from my two scout cars), and with overwatching LMG's and 50mm mortars. I also had a PzIII in overwatch.

The main russian defenders had been pushed out of thier initial position and ran back into a stand of woods. When I approached with my platoon and rested for a bit before the assualt, the A.I. counterattacked!

I was startled out of my analysis of platoon strength by the "HURRAAAAAAH" of a human wave attack!

I stared in disbelief as two russian squads rapidly closed the distance between cover, screaming war cries all the way.

They were promptly cut down, but I still could not believe the surprise I felt. The camera had been down at level 1 and when I heard the charge, I looked up to see the Russian squads emerge from the trees!

It was pretty freakin' awesome!

I mean, I was FROZEN. Thank goodness my troops had more experience than me and were able to react in the face of the russian human wave.

Has anyone else experienced a A.I. controlled Human Wave attack?

Gpig

Love this game! Thank you BTS.

[CMplayer]

Oh yeah, yeah *wipes tear from eye* that's what this game is all about. Camera level one...

[MikeyD]

I haven't experienced that but I've seen other equally impressive stuff from the AI.

Have you noticed the usual "but the AI is lame" comments on the board have dwindled to nearly nothing? I suspect more poeple than usual are getting their asses kicked by the v1.01 AI.

[CMplayer]

The AI counterattacking is kind of like your gerbil biting you. It doesn't hurt much but you're amazed the little bugger would even try. You never think of it the same way after.

[ December 12, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: CMplayer ]

[Soddball]

I was playing a QB Russian assault and was riding at view 1 on the back of a T34 HQ tank towards the enemy lines when out of nowhere "BOOM!", bits of my tank flew everywhere. Scared me silly. Next time, I made sure I was watching from the infantry perspective.

[Gpig]

Have you noticed the usual "but the AI is lame" comments on the board have

dwindled to nearly nothing? I suspect more poeple than usual are getting their asses

kicked by the v1.01 AI.

Oh yeah. I especially notice how much more difficult the A.I. can be to fight while playing well crafted scenarios. All of the battles on the CD are superb. And that's just playing the A.I.!

Gpig

[LightningWar]

I remember when I first downloaded the demo for CMBO. I played as teh Germans and we had a couple of 105s.They started targetted american troops. I had my sound up real loud and was just waiting for the gun to shoot. Then B00000000M! I about jumped out of my chair.

I was hooked

LW

[Terrapin]

Scariest moment against AI I ever saw, was when, in a QB, entire AI platoon was in this 40-meter wide "horseshoe depression" about 9 feet deep or so, with trees all around it which provided the AI with plenty of cover, and they weren't coming out, so I decided on a three squad human wave attack on two German squads set-up in some trees in the back of the depression.

The Soviet farm-boys start up on the human wave, are slowly walking, then they're picking up speed, yelling "HURRAHH!!!!!" I'm thinking "They're UNSTOPPABLE"!!!

Almost to those troops in the trees! Just 5 meters to go...a few more steps....."PHROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM". That's the last sound those boys heard as a hidden German flamethrower in the depression, cooked them.

Took out three squads.

[MikeyD]

Oh yeh. I was 7/8ths the way to rescuing my trapped German comrades (in one of the Stalingrad scenarios) feeling pretty good about myself when a KV flamethrower tank appeared from nowhere. That wasn't scary enough. After I hustled all my men into the safetly of a nearby building I spotted a single Russian soldier throw a single sachel charge at the building. Oh No!!!!! You guessed it - BOOM! the building and most of my forces instantly disappear! AAAggghhh!!!

[Danzig]

I agree that the AI has been playing a lot better, but do you guys find yourself playing the defender against the AI? I still find this not to be as satisfying as attacking the AI. The AI's attacking tactics intelligence still seems a bit off to me. Any comments?

[Lou2000]

Originally posted by Danzig:

I agree that the AI has been playing a lot better, but do you guys find yourself playing the defender against the AI? I still find this not to be as satisfying as attacking the AI. The AI's attacking tactics intelligence still seems a bit off to me. Any comments?

Fully agree with Danzig - Now when playing against the AI, I almost always attack ... leads to a much better game.

Lou2000

[laxx]

Hi,

Sometimes you will get a glimpse on how the AI works.

eg. sometimes, there will be one unit, eg. a tank which outperforms the rest of the platoon or company. It could be a regular tank that won't die, or its accuracy is 100%. Sort of like Michael Wittman before he got his first iron cross. And you know, early in the game, that you are gonna win, with this expert-tank-disguised-as-regular.

Friendly fire is quite interesting too, I once had a Russian Commander surrender to my German Troops, but because my troops were shooting behind the POW to get at the fleeing russian troops, the commander got shot. And that surprised me.

Othertimes, I find the AI quite dumb at attacking. As it sez in the manual, we will learn thru experience and get better, the AI, on the other hand, is not capable of learning. So I gather that it defends better than attacking.

laxx

[ December 13, 2002, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: laxx ]

[Master Dullard aka flyingcursor]

QB vs AI. I had lost 2 KV1's to a PzIVG and a Tiger but was priding myself on having flanked the Hun with an IS 2 that killed them both.

I decided I could safely move my three T34 43's from their positions in a village so I TAB'd, map level 1, to the middle tank. Each tank was partially hidden by a small wood building so they formed a sort of eschalon formation.

Suddenly to my horror a Tiger appeared out of nowhere on the far side of the village about 80m away weaving around houses. I knew it would rip my T34's to bits, the suspense was killing me when my tank shot at it with a machine gun!!!! What was THAT all about?

The Tiger stopped and the turret slowly began to rotate my direction. I almost fell out of my seat certain that huge 88 would utter my death roar.

Just as I thought I'd meet my demise, all three T-34's fired. Two of them hit penetrating the hull. The wounded beast began to retreat.

The suspense of that few seconds was better then most movies I've seen.

[Terrapin]

Originally posted by Lou2000:

Fully agree with Danzig - Now when playing against the AI, I almost always attack ... leads to a much better game.

Lou2000

I think this is true in general, attacking requires more tactics than defending.

I've seen the AI do allright in meeting engagements as well, if the flag is a little closer to their side (which it usually is). For sort of the same reason as above. Interestingly, the AI is usually very good, in my experience, at placing the HMGs in every meeting engagement I've done. They're in deep cover, back away from the infantry, etc.

Your mileage may vary.

[Terrapin]

Originally posted by Lou2000:

Fully agree with Danzig - Now when playing against the AI, I almost always attack ... leads to a much better game.

[/QB]

Also, if you haven't done so already. I'd take a look at some of the other user-made scenarios that have come out. I was really impressed by "SS_Panzer Division_5th Wiking", which you can find on the CM Scenarios page (I don't have the link in front of me, go to the scenarios forum).

That battle is a beautifully designed map, and it's DESIGNED for the player to defend, while the AI attacks, and it's pretty clever. The designer managed to make it so that you are on your toes nearly the entire time.

You'll most likely win, but I can see if you're not diligent, losing badly as well, and that's unusual.

If someone can make a scenario that makes the AI look better, I think others should follow.

[Terrapin]

Originally posted by Master Dullard aka flyingcursor:

the suspense was killing me when my tank shot at it with a machine gun!!!!

It's trying to button the tank before taking the shot (It doesn't seem to delay the time before the main gun fires). It's SOP on some tanks. I think it's useful in most situations, but in ambushes, yeah, sometimes I don't want it to do that, since it hasn't been seen at all yet.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Terrapin:

Interestingly, the AI is usually very good, in my experience, at placing the HMGs...

I've noticed that it is also very shrewd in locating ATGs right where they will cause me the maximum inconvenience.

Michael

[Hans]

The AI's use of artillery is still poor especially its decision path on using or not using smoke.

But yes the AI can get darn sneaky. I once laid a perfect ambush and was taking out the poor HTs and Pz IVs that had wandered into it when two Panthers which had circled around came in at ambush position, "parked" and proceeded to casually reduce my ATGs, MGs and SPs to burning junk.

Oh course it cheats too, once when I was an American in CMBO I had just taken out a Royal Tiger with a piece of US junk when a large thumb came out of the sky and squished my tank into the terrain. Gamey bastard that AI. The deep manicial laugh was disheartening too

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Hans:

Oh course it cheats too, once when I was an American in CMBO I had just taken out a Royal Tiger with a piece of US junk when a large thumb came out of the sky and squished my tank into the terrain. Gamey bastard that AI. The deep manicial laugh was disheartening too

That was Charles' Easter egg. Hope you enjoyed it. You may have been the only one to discover one.

Michael

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by Danzig:

I agree that the AI has been playing a lot better, but do you guys find yourself playing the defender against the AI? I still find this not to be as satisfying as attacking the AI. The AI's attacking tactics intelligence still seems a bit off to me. Any comments?

Of course- more 'brain' is required to shoot and move than simply to shoot, I would suppose. Still, because it is a gas to defend, (laying out mine/wire/tank hunter traps, hee hee, et cetera), I have conducted experiments in trying to get a good game out of the attacking AI.

I loathe and despise the 'computer experience' bonus thing, so that's out. Giving the AI more troops is neither a fix, it's just giving it more to be as lame with.

My best defending games have been playing small games as allies on a map where the attacker has three or four map edges for setup zones. Sure, that's just one type of battle, but it does seem to work- I've been completely surprised when the AI went for the 'wrong' flag, and had to scramble madly to get back there...

Panzer Leader has a few maps with those zones; they have Eden's Seal o' Approval, but of course there aren't many. Ultimately, all told there aren't many out there like that period, so you'll have to make your own if you like variety.

Eden

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by Terrapin:

That battle is a beautifully designed map, and it's DESIGNED for the player to defend, while the AI attacks, and it's pretty clever.

I'll be checking this one out. I love well-designed 1-player scenarios, and those where the AI is the attacker are all too rare. Good to hear that new ones are still being cranked out.

Heck, that would almost be worth a competition. A competition in scenario design, where the AI is the attacker. If WineCape would donate wine for that it could be fantastic for the community.

[ December 14, 2002, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: CMplayer ]