Fionn's latest AAR at MODs & MODers:

[Zipper]

I just watched the movies and read the AAR last night.

Looks like a hell of a battle coming up, guys. I can't wait to read and see more, too. Are we going to hear anything from The_Capt? It'd be nice to read things from his perspective.

Zipper

[Fionn]

Thanks PB,

"Can't wait to read more." Well, I'll see what the response to this is and then decide if it is worth my time to release others I've done to the wider public.

As re: Aces of the Deep. Yup, you may have heard of me there. I wrote a simple tactics article for that several years ago. Hell, I recently found out that one of my articles was referenced by Heavy Gear and MechWarrior clans to teach their players how to advance to contact . It seems that I "get around"

P.s. Warren is on the forum and if someone (tracked him down like the mangey dog he is and ) asked him I'm sure he'd be willing to give some comments.

[ May 30, 2002, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Fionn ]

[jjelinek]

From Fionn

Well, I'll see what the response to this is and then decide if it is worth my time to release others I've done to the wider public.

I'd like to see more of your AARs.

[Sidewinder]

yes, great aar so far. keep it up

[Wolfpack]

Definitely worth reading. I very rarely play battles this large, my system chugs along enough with a 1500 or so pointer, but seeing the larger ones like this helps me in the smaller battles too, I just have to downsize a bit. I also enjoy seeing the clash of two opposing viewpoints like this battle is. BTW Fionn, who would you say has played closest to your "style" and how did it end up?

[GillFish]

Gentlemen,

Any chance of hearing Warren's side of the tale? I'm especially interested in the structure of his defensive line. I'd have expected more units in front of the MLR to break up the expected skirmish/recon line.

[Arsenal]

Same here Gillfish.I would like to hear about his overall plan,purchase reasons..etc.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Originally posted by GillFish:

Gentlemen,

Any chance of hearing Warren's side of the tale? I'm especially interested in the structure of his defensive line. I'd have expected more units in front of the MLR to break up the expected skirmish/recon line.

Has this battle already been finished? If not, it might be prudent to hold back on the comments which could give vital information to Fionn (who obviously reads this thread) if it hasn't been completed yet.

If the game's already over, ignore the above.

Regards

Jim R.

[Cribtop Gamer]

Hey Fionn - do you have a link to your article on movement to contact and/or your sub warfare article? I'd love to read either one.

[ June 02, 2002, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: Cribtop Gamer ]

[Runyan99]

I read the first 5 turns of the AAR today and found it interesting. I'm very interested to see how it turns out.

I would like to predict that Fionn wins. Not that I think Fionn is some kind of war-god (as many here seem to believe), but because I think Warren's force composition is woefully inadequate.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

I read the first 5 turns of the AAR today and found it interesting. I'm very interested to see how it turns out.

I would like to predict that Fionn wins. Not that I think Fionn is some kind of war-god (as many here seem to believe), but because I think Warren's force composition is woefully inadequate.

Oh well..... so much for my suggestion.

Regards

Jim R.

[Holien]

Hi KR...

From what I understand the game was played some time ago and the result is already known.

I mentioned it to Warren and I am sure he will drop in here soon. Well as soon as he does my turn...

H

[jjelinek]

For Warren's sake, I hope he has some armour comming in. I'd like to know what his reasoning was for not having any on board.

[The_Capt]

My I see this has generated a fair amount of discussion.

This is a game that Fionn and I played..actually I can't remember to be honest but it was a while back.

The basic premise of the game was an Attrition vs Manouevre arguement. We had a 1300m frontage and I think around 3000 points or maybe 3500.

My job was to set up a defence which emphasized a static positional defence(Attrition)..which is what I did.

No armour, guns and infantry only. I picked the position I did because it offered good reverse slopes and actually uses the town as a reverse slope (just like the time I played you skelley and gave you a bit of a bloody nose when you came over the top IIRC ). As to the spacing, well to be honest, I did not have enough troops (FJs) to cover the whole frontage and leave anything for depth. A thin blue line would have had better spacing but it would have left little recourse once punctured. I would have been better to defend a 900-1000m frontage or employed mines and obstacles to reduce the flanks.

I put two pls out in a couple of ambushes just to act as an early warning and attrit Fionns Recon screen.

As to force purchase..well I would have bought onboard 81s as they are more deadly and quicker than the off board counterpart.

I would have went with 50mm ATs and pulled them in closer. I could have banked the savings into wire which could cover my gaps better. But for what we were doing it was a pretty simple and solid defence for anyone who was going to skip along thru.

I won't give the ending away but you will see as these two forces collide just how Fionn works.

Pay attention to all the phases of the battle as you will see both Attrition and Manouevre employed during the battle. On handing off to the other when the situation calls for it.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Originally posted by Holien:

Hi KR...

From what I understand the game was played some time ago and the result is already known.

I mentioned it to Warren and I am sure he will drop in here soon. Well as soon as he does my turn...

H

Thanks for filling me in.

Regards

Jim R.

[Fionn]

Warren,

1km front with 3600 points to cover it ( giving you a bit of a higher troop density for your defence.).

I still think the defence is a lot better than most people here seem to suggest. It really is.

I second Warren's final paragraph. As always you need both ( and actually a few other styles too which no-one ever seems to bother talking about).

[PawBroon]

Next five turns will be up tomorrow.

And trust me, The_Capt wasn't there to provide mere background noise.

Watch out for some serious moves...

[Herr Oberst]

Fionn, you gotta keep those AARs coming...

Wonderful instructional material. Enlightening to see not onlysomeone else's moves, but to hear the rationale behind the moves is the true gold nugget in all the info.

If you don't keep posting those great resources, I'll... I'll... I'll never Email you a challenge again!

No. Wait. I haven't Emailed you a challenge yet. That won't work.

Er, I shall personally kick my neighbor's cat Fluffy around the block yelling "Fionn made me do it!" Yeah, that's the ticket.

So keep 'em coming, or Fluffy's health in in your hands...

[The_Capt]

Originally posted by Fionn:

Warren,

1km front with 3600 points to cover it ( giving you a bit of a higher troop density for your defence.).

I still think the defence is a lot better than most people here seem to suggest. It really is.

I second Warren's final paragraph. As always you need both ( and actually a few other styles too which no-one ever seems to bother talking about).

Thanks Fionn,

It was awhile ago. Well if anybody thinks they can do better playing "Attritionist" then good luck to them

Pesonally I do think I would like to face you again, in CMBO, in a defence. I don't know if you have invented the unbeatable attack but it is damn close. Now if BTS give arty and MGs some teeth in CMBB we will see...

[ June 03, 2002, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: The_Capt ]

[PawBroon]

Eek a Challenge!

This time Warren, please remember to take notes as it will make the next AAR even more educational if both of you are commenting it.

As for all of you who have been eagerly waiting for turns 6 to 10, they're UP!!!

Now it's a little tricky so pay attention.

Usually my updates are always on top of pages.

But for an AAR it wouldn't make much sense to have turns going from the last to the first.

So Turn 6 is after Turn 5.

Annoying isn't it?

[Cooper]

Fionn,

I was watching the movies and I notice all your forward units were tired. You even had some that were weary. Is their lack of combat effectiveness worth the ability to keep pace with your attack?

In my experience tired and weary troops get cut apart as soon as they have any lasting contact with a rested enemy. Your tired and weary (all of them will be weary if you keep this pace up) troops should shatter like glass once encountering the enemy's MLR and before the reveal much info about that MLR. Also, if you give them a rest while your reserves catch up they are prone to be hit by artillery.

I am interested to see what happens in the next 10-15 turns.

[ June 03, 2002, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Cooper ]

[Ligur]

I think Fionn stated that upon achieving contact with the MLR he would use 5 rounds or somefink to organize/position the attack and rest his picket. Dunno.

[Fionn]

Marcel,

Well Warren's already facing me in an ME ( which looks decidedly like a defence from where I'm advancing) so you can rest assured he's getting his chances . That game was our 3rd game if memory serves me right. Soon we'll be starting our fifth ( in which Warren can defend if he wants. Attack or defence makes little difference to me in any case.)

Cooper,

That's just a trade-off. Some people value cohesion and firepower. I value speed and formlesness.

Patton once said that an ounce of sweat saves a gallon of blood on the battlefield. I would agree with him. Tired men recover, dead men don't. By pushing my men harder than the enemy considers possible I get inside his OODA loop. If he tries to respond and pushes his men too hard (wearying them and forcing loss of cohesion) I'll pounce on this mistake and chop them to bloody little pieces.

Still though it is just a matter of commander preference. I know a lot of people who think I'm mad for pushing the infantry that hard BUT to a man those people don't play around with the OODA loop like I do and therefore their battle view doesn't encompass OODA phenomena in the same way mine would. At least that's how I've come to explain the difference to myself.

Ligur is right.. In the opening I calculated out how long it would take me to win.. I figured it'd take about 40 turns because of the extreme distance to the likely MLR.

Ps. Warren and I HAVE finished the game so don't worry about giving anything away by asking questions. Thanks to Jim for the thought re: info dissemination though.

[Cooper]

Fionn,

So ,as I understand it, you are not using these inf. to engage the MLR. Is your breakthrough dependent upon your artillery and support afvs (in this case M8) to destroy the enemy units in the MLR? Thus allowing you to breakthrough these suppressed/destroyed units with these tired forward inf. units.

[Ligur]

As Fionn stated above, tired infantry recovers, dead infantry doesn't.

Tired or winded troops don't need a vacation, it is a state after a rapid advance and will disappear soon enough. I often end up running my infantry tired.

The idea is not to run through the whole map in one go, you just place infantry A to spot A as fast as possible.

[ June 03, 2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Ligur ]