Michael Dorosh Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 If BTS decides to put up an AAR the way they did with CMBO, what would you guys want to see? I think we can agree on a few things that would be nice, but what would you like to see emphasized? a) An illustration of historical styles of play reflecting wartime German and Russian doctrine? illustrations of the difference between CMBO and CMBB, ie stuff like how the new hull down or MG coding will work? c) illustrations of different gaming styles (as distinct from actual historical tactics)? d) illustrations of new stuff not included in CMBO at all, like sewer movement? e) two sets of AARs, with four different players tackling the same scenario in different ways? Which particular types of actions would you want to see showcased? Armour vs. Armour? Street fighting? Combined arms attack/defend? I suppose it would depend a lot on a) which players were playing the scenario for the AAR which areas of the game have changed the most (ie tank to tank duels may not have changed at all for all we know) c) what types of combat CMBB will model better than others (ie urban fighting may still not be so well modelled - then again, with sewers, who knows). Or do we want to see an AAR at all and just wait for the game to come out? I never read any AARs before buying CMBO, it took me a while before I heard about it, and longer still to decide to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zitadelle Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 I am going to get flak for this one, but I finally want to have my say. My honest vote is this (no sarcasm): I do not want to see anything. I do not want to see: Bones Screenshots AARs Functionality of CMBB Questions regarding functionality of CMBB Questioning functionality of CMBB when the questioner has not even seen the beta version Theories on when it will be released Theories on pre-ordering Demands on the guys (I want this, I want that...) Requests for updates Questioning their use of facts when the sources are not currently known A formalized Project Plan Or anything else, until BFC is ready to make their announcement. Listen, we all want the product. To be honest, it was the fact that I heard that CMBB was coming out (back in June, 2001) that made me investigate CMBO. One of the best decisions for a computer-game purchase that I have made. But, all of our wishing, demanding, complaining, questioning, and theorizing is not going to help the process any. Let us all take a deep, deep breath. Let us wait this out. Go fishing, read a book, take a hike, drink a fine bottle of wine, talk to someone on a topic other than CMBO or CMBB. Or, just sit in a dark, dank room and play CMBO until your fingers are raw. The guys are doing an excellent job. Based upon their last product and the bones that have been released I fully trust their work. And, I will be feverishly trying to order it when the news comes out. In the meantime, let's all do two things: 1)Stand up and congratulate them on their hard work. Which, hey, excellent work guys! I am really impressed with what you have done and am looking forward to your final product (don't bother responding...) 2)Leave them alone to complete the work that they have set out to do. Finally, if for anything else place this in the realm of your own job, school projects, or hobbies. You are approaching a deadline on a major deliverable. Furthermore, your paycheck (or other reward) is fully dependent upon the release of that item. Would you want a group of screaming hooligans bothering you all the time when you are just trying to keep your boss/teacher/what-have-you pleased and the money coming in? Let the guys finish their job and then get some rest. OK, let the 20mm and 37mm flak begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 27, 2002 Author Share Posted June 27, 2002 I agree with you, actually, Zitadelle. But I have heard rumblings about an AAR, so thought it might be interested in throwing it out for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricornelius Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 This might make me sound "thick" but what does BB in CMBB stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 So, what else are we supposed to talk about here then? I guess we can just pop in occaisionally to see if an "It's here!" thread is up, but I personally rather enjoy the building excitement of its release. BFCTS know we're hooligans and they don't seem to mind too much, so here's my opinion: I want bones! I want an AAR that shows off the new capabilities of CMBB, so I can want it even more than I do now. I don't care about the tactics of the various player, nor the graphics, I want to know how an MG has been reworked, I want to know about human wave, sewers, bubbled walls, new editor features, new terrain, the unit list-- Aside: When was the unit list for CMBO released, was it before the game went gold? I would LOVE a complete unit list. There's nothing wrong with being excited about the game and wanting to talk about it and ask questions and offer opinions and all that. In fact, Zitadelle, if you feel that way, why are you here now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 That should be RUBBLED walls, ahem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 and d). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Originally posted by Capricornelius: This might make me sound "thick" but what does BB in CMBB stand for? Capricornelius, CMBB = Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt CDAT Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Move along! Nothing to see here! [ June 27, 2002, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Sgt CDAT ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricornelius Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Originally posted by SuperTed: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Capricornelius: This might make me sound "thick" but what does BB in CMBB stand for? Capricornelius, CMBB = Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Hey Michael, I think an AAR by Fionn Kelly would cover all of these items. I have found his AARs to be very comprehensive (if a little pro-Fionn ) You should get in touch with him and see if he will provide you with one. Especially if he plays Bil, those games are the stuff of legend. I suppose the guys will have to get approval from BTS first though... You should try and get it posted to your site cause it will only fade into the mist here. Just my dimes worth.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 27, 2002 Author Share Posted June 27, 2002 Warren - great idea; I think Fionn would be high on most people's list of guest stars. Not knowing who the beta testers are, though, it makes it hard to discuss whom we would most like to see. I can imagine writing an AAR would be very time consuming for the participants, especially with the level of detail that would be demanded/requested/desired. It would be understandable if no one was able to spare the time - especially if testing is going full guns with an eye to speedy release. EDIT - if BTS and a pair of beta testers wanted to provide an AAR I would be happy to host it on my site; especially if it depicted an action fought by GD. I can't imagine why BTS would not host such an AAR themselves, though, they have no issues with server space, etc., though time may be a factor for them. So yeah, I would be interested in hosting - I'll bet some of the more popular sites like Tom's etc. would jump at the chance too, though, and would get more traffic than my site. [ June 27, 2002, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Classic historical confrontations that illustrate units types and fighting conditions unlike anything common in the west. Ideally, two AARs, one a Stalingrad urban fight with early war vehicles (Pz IIIs, Russian 45m lights), improved buildings, rubble, sewers, special infantry weapons (molotovs, PPsh, German pioneers with charges and FTs e.g.) etc. The second a Kursk armor heavy combined arms fight, with ATRs, gun nests, lots of T-34s and the odd SU, a few German heavies but mostly Pz IVs etc. The latter should also showcase big maps, improved landscape visuals, do-daddy terrain, T-34s ablaze in wheat, etc. That is what I would do. And I am sure everybody would love some part of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Warren - great idea; I think Fionn would be high on most people's list of guest stars. Not knowing who the beta testers are, though, it makes it hard to discuss whom we would most like to see. I can imagine writing an AAR would be very time consuming for the participants, especially with the level of detail that would be demanded/requested/desired. It would be understandable if no one was able to spare the time - especially if testing is going full guns with an eye to speedy release. EDIT - if BTS and a pair of beta testers wanted to provide an AAR I would be happy to host it on my site; especially if it depicted an action fought by GD. I can't imagine why BTS would not host such an AAR themselves, though, they have no issues with server space, etc., though time may be a factor for them. So yeah, I would be interested in hosting - I'll bet some of the more popular sites like Tom's etc. would jump at the chance too, though, and would get more traffic than my site.Well I know Fionn has made no secret that he is a Beta Tester. So I don't think it would be a problem. You should approach him about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Havermeyer- Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 MadMatt in a MuMu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 27, 2002 Author Share Posted June 27, 2002 Originally posted by The_Capt: Well I know Fionn has made no secret that he is a Beta Tester. So I don't think it would be a problem. You should approach him about it.[/QB]We all know he reads my posts religiously, so we can consider him contacted. So, Fionn, what say you? Would your schedule allow for such an enterprise? I don't mean to put pressure on BTS if they were not planning on doing such a thing, just thought I would throw it out for discussion. Perhaps if you are willing/already planning such a thing you can review everyone's druthers and perhaps accommodate some of the requests stated here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Hear, Hear, I second Michael's idea and request. With the nod from BTS of course, I think a Fionn Kelly Special in the tradition of the pre-CMBO is in order. And as it would seem BTS is too busy for us to ask them to do it. I think the idea of someone like Michael hosting it is an excellent idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 One problem maybe that not just BTS, but also some of the beta testers could be a bit busy themselves. Doing a full AAR (with movies, explanations and arrows drawn on maps) takes time, especially if you want to do it well (and what's the point of doing it otherwise?). In my case, RL considerations would not allow it, and it would therefore take time out of testing. Can't speak for my colleagues of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 27, 2002 Author Share Posted June 27, 2002 Actually, what good would movies be, if we don't have CMBB with which to watch them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Andreas: One problem maybe that not just BTS, but also some of the beta testers could be a bit busy themselves. Doing a full AAR (with movies, explanations and arrows drawn on maps) takes time, especially if you want to do it well (and what's the point of doing it otherwise?). In my case, RL considerations would not allow it, and it would therefore take time out of testing. Can't speak for my colleagues of course.Well why don't one of you testers send me a copy and I will be glad to do it.. [ June 28, 2002, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: The_Capt ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Meyer Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I also would like to see an in depth AAR. I know there were 2 AARs done already, but like everyone alse here has mentioned, a more in depth AAR is needed. One in which we can clearly see new features at work and new weapons, new tanks and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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