vanwag Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Every time I plunk down the big bucks in QMB and get a Tiger/King Tiger, they never seem to make it to the battle. I'm picking 'open' terrain to drive them in, but I still seem to get 'bogged'. Anyone got any tips for moving these giants in battle? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screeny Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Just make sure the ground conditions are not too wet/damp/moist. Some nice dry or frozen ground suits heavy tanks best gr Screeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum MGG Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Thats actually very realistic... Tigers and especially King Tigers were very heavy... they had to travel distances over a road to get to a battle, (or like the above post) the terrian had to be favorable... Just know way around it, got to know the terrian before you buy the big guns... if your plan is to defend a area, then by all means get them and put them in overwatch positions, then let the panzers do the moving. If you play by capturing the flag, race to the flag along the road, then tactically place the king tigers in good spots around (or near the enemy approach). They shouldn't be moved much unless the terrian is in your favor. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Tip until the patch comes out: Don't buy Tigers (or any heavy tank) unless you are in the South theater. There is a bug - which is being corrected - which makes all ground conditions Damp or worse even in scorching summer heat. The only theatre in which you have a chance of getting Dry conditions is the South theater. There is also a bug - again being corrected - which increases your chance of bogging for every tank which is present on the map, including your opponents. So all together at the moment a Tiger does not have much chance of staying mobile. Your best chance is to put it on a road and keep it on a road. We need that patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 According to these findings by Paul Jungnitsch this high chance to bog for Tigers is not even realistic. But until somebody can find more evidence for this, including MMP values for pretty much all vehicles in CM, I doubt we will see any changes to the current engine. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screeny Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Aha it's a bug....I thought I had only bad luck all the time with Damp ground and hot temp/clear air....makes sense then gr Screeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 The real Tiger was slow, but it was not especially prone to bogging. The CM model is too simple here, punishing some vehicles it shouldn't, e.g. the STuG III (as opposed tot he StuG IV which is fine). The CM quickbattle mechanism is also flawed that you get slightly random ground conditions anywhere, even in the South. If you have dry weather and everything you can still get damp ground. Bad misfeature for people who want to have a Quickbattle to run around with some tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanwag Posted November 19, 2002 Author Share Posted November 19, 2002 That explains it! My current battle... Dec. '44 with Frozen conditions... a King Tiger only made it 3 turns of open ground travel (not fast either) before bogging. Another Question... once 'bogged' is there any command that increases my chance to get moving again (i.e. Halt/Reverse), or should I leave the current waypoints and let the AI try and get out of its boggedy condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 As you say Redwolf, there are real problems with the Random weather generator even in the South zone. I have seen heatwaves in November and Thick Fog in gale force winds amongst other oddities. The all prevading Damp is the biggest flaw, which is being sorted thanks to the BFC boys. What we really need is Random Weather conditions that relate to each other, the season, and the theater. It seems odd that a game which models the thickness of hundreds of pieces of metal to the n'th degree currently has such unrealistic and occasionally downright silly weather for them to go out in. This is stuff for another thread though, as I don't want to hijack vanwag's thread, do we fancy starting one on the main forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Vanwag, I have seen that question about un-bogging asked many times before, and no-one to date has come up with a definative theory. I've seen people who recommend cancelling all orders, reversing, changing to fast movement, all sorts. I think that at the end though it just comes down to luck pure and simple. There is certainly nothing in the manual and IIRC Madmatt has also confirmed that it is just luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: The real Tiger was slow, but it was not especially prone to bogging. The CM model is too simple here, punishing some vehicles it shouldn't, e.g. the STuG III (as opposed tot he StuG IV which is fine).How so? I thought that StuG III had bad PSI b/c of the Pz III narrow track issue, while Pz IV chassis has wider tracks & thus StuG IV has good PSI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadHunter Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 I'm no armor grog (at least not compared to many folks on these forums), but it's my understanding that the Tiger actually had a lower ground pressure than some smaller vehicles - and isn't that what should determine chance of bogging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by Silvio Manuel: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by redwolf: The real Tiger was slow, but it was not especially prone to bogging. The CM model is too simple here, punishing some vehicles it shouldn't, e.g. the STuG III (as opposed tot he StuG IV which is fine).How so? I thought that StuG III had bad PSI b/c of the Pz III narrow track issue, while Pz IV chassis has wider tracks & thus StuG IV has good PSI?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewSocialistMan Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 true. The matilda had pretty low ground pressure overall, but had such serious problems with bogging due to the way its skirts and bogey wheels were set up. I have noticed that bumping one vehicle with another often unbogs the stuck vehicle. It doesn't help if you are well and truly immobilized, but seems to free you from the bog pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelley Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 I would stop buying those things. A PzIVG has a gun big enough to kill any russian tank and won't get bogged as easy and has a faster turret and is less expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanwag Posted November 22, 2002 Author Share Posted November 22, 2002 You're right Skelley, but I'm trying to 'emulate' the German high command's (mistaken) belief that the technological superiority of German heavy tanks would turn the tide of the war on the eastern front plus they're cool :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewSocialistMan Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 The PzIVG route is kind of the eggshell with the bigger hammer idea that seems to permeate late war thinking. Certainly nothing wrong with that, but why not then just go all the way to the Stug or Hetzer? Or similarly thin skinned fascist vehicles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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