PIAT's - what use are they ??

[foamy]

I recently got handed about 7 PIATS by the computer in an "Infantry" game ??

They seem to be useless against ground troops, why are they considered suitable for Infantry only battles ??

Also, in other battles were Armour was allowed, these PIATS coud never hit anything, and when they did, very little damage caused.

Anyone got a bit of advise on how best to use these things.

[PiggDogg]

Foamy,

Piats are really worthless against German infantry.

However, Piats may not be perfect infantry AT weapons, but they do kill most German vehicles.

Be patient, have them hidden, and let the Kraut vehicles come pretty close (50 to 100 meters). Then unhide them and let the piats choose their own target. Or target an enemy vehicle.

One can bet that a regular piat will miss 2 or 3 times before they hit (remember the rule: "no matter what you do is wrong"). Don't even ask about green or conscript piats.

Vet & better piats are well ... better.

One nice thing about piats, many times they can fire and, especially if German infantry is not too near, the piat may remain unspotted even after several shots.

Cheers, Richard

[ May 27, 2002, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: PiggDogg ]

[flammenwerfer]

PIATS should automatically include a jeep...

[KenH]

PIATs also don't tend to self-immolate the building you may be hiding in

[YankeeDog]

Just nailed a StuH42 with one in a PBEM. It took 4 shots, but my opponent never saw the PIAT that took out the tank (he did spot another PIAT team that missed)

I feel that they're generally the weakest of the IAT weapons (i.e., compared to zooks and shrecks), but they do have some advantages. As noted above, they are very difficult to spot, even when firing, so they can get more shots off before being spotted, and they are also more likely to make a clean getaway if they take a vehicle out.

Because a PIAT's projectile is spring-launched rather than rocket-launched, they also do not have the backblast problem and therefore can be safely used from inside buildings. This is a huge advantage in a city fight, where engagement distances are usually very close anyway and their ability to fire from inside buildings and remain unspotted can be deadly.

I've never done a definitive test on it, but even though zooks and PIATs have the same max range (200m), my own experience is that PIATs are somewhat less accurate than zooks at a given range.

so use 'em like you would any IAT weapon - get 'em as close as possible to the target without being spotted (preferably by having the target come to them), if possible have the target buttoned, and whenever possible get a flank or rear shot. The last point is especially true if the target is heavily armoured, but still holds true even if the target is a lightly armoured one - shooting at the flanks gives you a larger target, and either flank or rear will lessen the chance of the AT team being spotted by the AFV.

With PIATs, just remember their special drawbacks and advantages - they're a bit 'stealthier', but less accurate.

I like to use AT teams in groups of 2-3 whenever possible. In the kill of the StuH above, one PIAT team (the one that actually had the worse shot) opened up first - the StuH rotated to face this threat and take it under fire, and in so doing exposed it's flank to the other PIAT with the better shot. As I said, it took 4 shots, but the result was a bit boom and one dead StuH. . .

And yes, PIATs are pretty much worthless against infantry. The only good use I can think of for them is as OPs in relatively unthreated locations, or as VL holders.

[CMplayer]

If you have british infantry, you will get piats in an all-infantry game for the simple reason that they are organic to british platoons. In that situation I would group them into teams of 3-4 piats and use them together to area-fire a light building or stand of scattered trees where the enemy has a squad or weapons team. During a firefight this could have enough suppressive effect to give you the edge. And if you're lucky you could start the target building on fire.

Also, if they fire at infantry in the open they can definitely cause a casualty or two. I know this from bitter recent personal experience.

[CMplayer]

Piats are really worthless against German infantry.

Well I'd have to disagree with that sweeping generalization. I recently had a squad of crack FJs flush out a crawling piat that was trying to infiltrate a halftrack park on the grounds of a monastery. My FJs were in 'rough' but before the piat croaked they managed to take out one German Para. That's a fair trade pointwise I'm guessing. In a similar encounter in a wheatfield, the piat hit one or possibly two guys in a German Coy HQ.

Common to both cases is that the encounters occured at very close range (night scenario) so the few shots the piats managed to get off were extremely accurate.

[Prinz Eugen]

I think PIATs are great pieces of kit. Yesterday I killed my TCP opponents Tiger with a PIAT (the only tank in the battlefield at that time ), so it pretty well saved the game for me :)It hits at nothing at longer range, but once you let the tank come well within range, those Panzers are in for a surprise of their lives... It has its limitations though, as do all infantry AT-weapons, but a PIAT is better than nothing !

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

[QB]I recently had a squad of crack FJs flush out a crawling piat that was trying to infiltrate a halftrack park on the grounds of a monastery. My FJs were in 'rough' but before the piat croaked they managed to take out one German Para. That's a fair trade pointwise I'm guessing. In a similar encounter in a wheatfield, the piat hit one or possibly two guys in a German Coy HQ.

QB]

Firing on even a high-point infantry squad like Fallshirmjaegers with a PIAT will rarely result if a point exchange in your favor. A regular PIAT team is 13 points. A regular Fallshirm squad is 38 points. At PIAT team has only two members while the Fallshirm Squad has 10, though - therefore the one regular Fallshirm soldier is worth 3.8 points, while each member of a PIAT team is worth 6.5. You need to kill at least four Fallshirmjaegers with the PIAT team before it dies to get an exchange rate in your favor assuming experience levels are equal.

Your area and support fire ideas might be of some use, though. I tend to play scenarios rather than QBs, so I can never be sure if some enemy armour isn't going to make a late arrival. Therefore I tend to keep my PIATs in reserve rather than allowing them of fire off their ammo at infantry.

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

A regular Fallshirm squad is 38 points.

Sure, but this was a crack FJ squad. But no matter. The point was just that the piat wasn't _useless_.

[Trooper]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

Because a PIAT's projectile is spring-launched rather than rocket-launched, they also do not have the backblast problem and therefore can be safely used from inside buildings.

Just for the record, they're actually mortars, the spring is simply used to detonate the charge.

However, the net effect is the same. No backblast.

NTM

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by KenH:

PIATs also don't tend to self-immolate the building you may be hiding in

People talk about this all the time (e.g. there was another similar comment on this thread) but I put zooks and shrecks in buildings all the time and have them fire at any targets that come along and have hardly ever had a problem with it (maybe once or two times in literally hundreds of CM games.)

Am I just lucky or is this problem overblown (at least in CM if not in RL terms)?

[Redwolf]

The rockets get supressed by their own blast when in buildings, and hence they won;t fire more than two times or so in a turn.

Of course, the PIAT's reload behaviour isn't optimal in *any* terrain

I prefer Jacksons and Panthers over AT teams anyway.

[Toran]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by KenH:

PIATs also don't tend to self-immolate the building you may be hiding in

People talk about this all the time (e.g. there was another similar comment on this thread) but I put zooks and shrecks in buildings all the time and have them fire at any targets that come along and have hardly ever had a problem with it (maybe once or two times in literally hundreds of CM games.)

Am I just lucky or is this problem overblown (at least in CM if not in RL terms)?</font>

[Gpig]

Yo!

I LOVE PIAT's.

I have also loathed PIAT's.

But I think a HUGE difference can be found if you team them up with a leader (in C&C) with a combat bonus.

I just played a tCP/ip game wherein my PIAT teams accounted for a PUMA, a 20mm armed armored car and a Stug III.

The PUMA and 232/?? (20mm) jobbie were both KO'd at over 100m by PIAT's under control of combat bonus HQ units.

The Stug happened apon a squad of infantry and a PIAT that were both out of C&C of their platoon leader.

The lead squad buttoned up the Stug and the PIAT let loose with a couple of rounds. Both missing from about 30m.

Next orders phase I gave a WITHDRAWL order to the platoon leader so he could get back to the action and put the PIAT team into C&C. (This leader had a +2 COMBAT bonus.)

Next action phase starts with the Stug unbuttoned again and trundling along past the building housing my PIAT team. The team remains unspotted, but they are still reloading. Then, with the HQ unit back in control of the PIAT team, they let lose another round. KLANG! One dead Stug. The range was about 40m, but I'm positive the leader was the deciding factor.

Gpig

[mike8g]

Some days ago, one of my PIATs killed a Nashorn at a distance of 196m with the second shot.

[Frunze]

Spring-loaded?

Until I saw Troopers' clarification, I was wondering: "what is this thing, some kinda giant slingshot?"

[Gpig]

I think it stands for;

Projector Infantry Anti-Tank (I know it sounds silly.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kind of looks like this . . .

===p===O-

Gpig

[Sir Uber General]

Use the piats to smack down infantry in buildings. I think they can also get rear door penetrations on pillboxes, and will certainly knock out wooden bunkers too.

[jjelinek]

I was able to sneak a PIAT up to the 2nd floor of a building and KO a tiger from about 80 meters.

[foamy]

My question on PIATS got a lot more response than I expected - great advice in all kinds of situations - thanks to all.

My current game is in farmland and infantry only, so based on most of the comments, these PIATS are not going to do me much good - never mind, must soldier on and hope for the best.

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by Trooper:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by YankeeDog:

Because a PIAT's projectile is spring-launched rather than rocket-launched, they also do not have the backblast problem and therefore can be safely used from inside buildings.

Just for the record, they're actually mortars, the spring is simply used to detonate the charge.

However, the net effect is the same. No backblast.

NTM</font>

[Sir Uber General]

On the issue of being overrun, Ive always wondered why IAT crews (and in fact, all crew served weapons) are not abandonded like ATG's when it is obvious they are in big trouble.... how many times have you wished your poor pixel trooper would just drop the stupid PIAT and save his life?

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

(A)... Why should the pin-spring on a PIAT need to be so heavy when a small arms bullet can be set off by a fairly small and light spring.

(... I would also think that the 'mortar' design would create a wicked amount of recoil.

I'll answer these the oter way around;

( Yes, it had a real kick-of-a-mule recoil.

It was so hefty that at least one British soldier was even rewarded a Victoria Cross for accurately firing a PIAT from the hip (hitting and killing a Tiger tank in the process)...

(A) I think the spring had to be very strong to absorb the recoil before the firing pin (or the metal lump holding it) smash into the back of the weapon. With a lighter spring the entire firing pin arrangement would have to be substantially heavier.

The spring would normally only have to be cocked for the first round in combat though, so it shouldn't cause that much of a problem.

Cheers

Olle

[YankeeDog]

Olle -

Thanks for the explanation. The thing makes a little more sense to me now.