Anyone played nail biters with close results with CM:BB?

[OGSF]

I have around a dozen PBEMs' going against players who for the most part have at least a year of daily CM:BO under their belts. Yet the results to date have been rather one-sided. Either I have won by ridiculous margins of 98-2 (in two cases), or am getting beaten as badly the other way. There have been no "hard fought close finishes"....the result has always been woefully clear from early on.

Sometimes it's opening artillery strikes gutting one side or the other, or one-sided tank battles where the armour is not evenly matched. These are both QBs' and CD scenarios.

Such one-sided results were the exception for me in CM:BO, rather than the norm. So is it that we have not yet mastered CM:BB tactics adequately, or are these results inherent in the game play of CM:BB?

If it is tactics, what needs to be done differently. I am not enjoying the lopsided results of CM:BB as much as close fought finishes in CM:BO.

Thoughts?

[Seanachai]

That was completely incomprehensible. Is English a second language to you?

[John DiFool]

META: I find that most strategy games are very

poorly designed from a game balance standpoint.

I'm not necessarily saying that CMBB falls into that category (for the sake of discussion I use

strategy game" in the broadest possible sense,

even if CM is a 'tactical' game), but just pointing

that out...

John DiFool

[Cameroon]

I actually have quite a number of close-fought battles, but against the AI. Many of them come out to be tactical victory/defeat rather than major or total (though I get totals and majors too). So far I haven't played anyone in BB (haven't played many people in BO either).

One thing that really can tip the balance is playing totally random QBs. That is, a QB where everything (or almost everything) that can be set to random is. For instance, in most of my QBs (against the AI so far) I at least set the terrain parameters, since they can have a such a large impact on the tactical possibilities.

[SaTyR]

Me and my regular TCP/IP opponent Ham (cheers) played one heck of a nailbiter just a couple of weeks ago. Exactly 50:50 victory %. Night, russian probe (Ham as the soviets), EFOW, small town with flags near my edge on small hills, little cover (the night was enough tho', 75m visibility) and 1000 pts for the defender (again, IIRC, might have been 1500).

The battle raged on with pre-planned barrage by Ham to shake my right flank and to finally shatter it with assaulting SMG squads (the barrage killed off platoon and a half + support weapons). His center push to capture one big flag and the ground between the second big flag on the right was stopped by my armor killing 5 of his 6 t-34 and a barrage of 105mm artillery (2 FOs) stripping him out of his covering infantry. The soviet tanks were "identified" as light tanks until contact . My 3 StuGs gave 'em a nasty sting and my infantry finally stopped his infantry near the center flag. In the end Ham held 1 small and 1 large victory flags and the last, large flag was contested. He had no more force to push forward and I had no infantry to support my StuGs and try and take the flags back. My StuGs cost him the victory, 5 destroyed t-34s making up the cost of losing 2 flags easily. As I stated, victory percentages 50:50, you can't get closer to a draw than that.

So yes, there have been some close results in CMBB

I admit that it IS easier to lose big time in CMBB than in CMBO. Playing the minor Axis nations against the soviets late in the war for example. But winning isn't everything, right ?

[imported_Hiram Sedai]

I haven't finished a CMBB PBEM yet, but some are not going so well yet. I know for certain that if I were to play OGSF that I would beat him within an inch of his life and make him run home crying to his mommy.

If this was any help whatsoever, it was purely unintential.

[P5]

Actually I'm currently playing one PBEM game that's a really nerve wrecking.

There's one big hill and our trooop at the moment are on opposite side of the hill. You can't see his troops, you can't hit them with artillery. At the moment there's nothing much to do, than use your propaganda abilities...and my opponet is quite good in propaganda.

Couldn't sleep last night very good, because his propaganda is taking away my peace of mind.

[Abbott]

Yes, I have played a few with close results already. One memorable one with Snarker that I thought I was losing but he was unable to dig the Russian infantry out of their trenches in the end. I was actually able to launch a counter-attack out of the trenches and recapture two flags for the win.

At the moment I have 2 PBEM games going as well that are real nail biters. One a canned Stalingrad scenario with Gyrene and another which is a QB with Rob Z. In both, both sides are taking heavy casualties and victory is up for grabs. Gyrene is going down though....

[ October 23, 2002, 03:53 AM: Message edited by: Abbott ]

[Mace]

Originally posted by OGSF:

If it is tactics, what needs to be done differently. I am not enjoying the lopsided results of CM:BB as much as close fought finishes in CM:BO.

Thoughts?

Easy. CMBB punishes gamey players!

Mace

[Dschugaschwili]

I think that the reason for getting less close results is the variable turn ending. In CMBO the battle could end while a flag was still fought over. In CMBB the battle is often extended until the question of control is resolved, and the winner of the local fight gets the flag as a bonus.

Dschugaschwili

[Bone_Vulture]

Perhaps it would be therapeutic to share my worst TCP/IP match in CM:BO... Ever!

Losing is not bad, thinking that you'll win and eventually lose made me pop a vein. I was defending against an allied attack; small map village, dense forest cover, slight hills, rain, 800 base points. Americans vs. SS.

I had contemplated that the terrain would make infantry and mines the enemy tank's worst enemies, so I purchased just one tank, a Hetzer, and a 75mm inf gun. Besides that, I had a regular rifle company, and a motorized pioneer platoon.

All three flags were placed neatly, and the big one was on the middle of a thick forest patch, an ideal ground for infantry. I placed the rifle troops in the vicinity of the flags, and held the pioneer platoon as an evil surprise, hiding way back.

I was off to a bad start. As the entry routes for enemy armor were quite limited (and mined), I decided to place the Hetzer to a flankin position behind a house in the front. At the end of the fourth round, a lone infantry unit appeared at edge of the forest, and I had the chance to see the first AT rocket fly at my precious panzer. Bazooka!

Of course, I took no risks, and opened fire with a rifle platoon over the field, and let the Hetzer take HE potshots at the Bazooka team. The result? The yankee AT team shrugged off massive barrage of lead like it was gentle summer rain, and scored three hits on the Hetzer, the final one being the lethal strike. Great.

But my friend's luck was also mischievous: he had taken the road leading straight to the village with all three of his tanks. Um, not a wise move, anyone? A Sherman exploded from shame after running into a mine field, the following Jackson was immobilized, but a Wolverine managed to slip by, as if by magic.

Meanwhile, American infantry was pouring to the center of the pesky village: hiding rifle infantry welcomed them with murderous joy. My 75mm inf gun was placed on the very opposite edge of the map, in relation to the Hetzer. Concealed in rough terrain, it gave American infantry hell as they passed by in the open spots of the mid-map. The obligatory flamethrowers that came with the pioneer platoon also sowed panic on the oncoming yankees.

By now, things were definitely looking good to me: two American infantry platoons had already been rendered inoperable, and the other two of my platoons were fresh with near full ammo. I moved one of the platoons to the forest, in order to secure the big flag. And then... The sky ripped open.

The village front was clear of American troops, when 240mm goodness began raining on the unlucky, weary defenders. A minute later, the center of the village had been turned to sawdust, the remains of the rifle platoon were running away, and another wave of Allied troops poured in.

No biggie, I thought: I still controlled the other two flags with superior infantry presence. It was time to move out the nasty surprise, in order to secure the big flag. Now, my fatal mistake was that i didn't know exactly how many rounds the 240mm howitzer battery held.

To cut the rest of the story brief, bitter infantry combat ensued. The other infantry platoon held the forest with minimal casualties, and the pioneers gave fire support from the back, kinda like active reserves. Finally, I moved the pioneers to the far side of the forest, too keep them in cover until needed.

*SSSSHHHHHHHHHHREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKK BOOOOOOOM*

In a single devastating explosion, the American artillery had blasted a fresh pioneer platoon to oblivion. Four squads, one HQ. No survivors. At this point I could barely keep myself from tearíng my head apart. Not to mention that the inf gun and an MG, positioned some 30 meters away from the blast, both routed.

The rifle platoon in the forest held back, and the other platoon on the opposite side was tied in keeping the Americans in place, but I knew it was enough: only two turns left. And like the final joke of destiny, the last 240mm shell ended... Yes, right on top of the rifle platoon's remnants. Final verdict: minor defeat.

I swear, I've never thrown so many curses at the "gamey, lame-ass n00b artillery" as I did then. Losing battles like that makes people cranky.

[xerxes]

I've had more close battles in CMBB then in CMBO.

[MikeyD]

In CMBB usually I start out doing very well but once my ammo stocks start to dwindle the other side starts making progress against me. Whether I win or loose often has to do with how many turns left before I'm completely out of ammo. And to think the game has an option for just 10% ammo for the troops! What happens when the ammo's gone, they start clubbing eachother?

[xerxes]

They still have some ammo when it reads low. When low, the firepower rating is reduced. If you manually target the low ammo unit will fire one burst and stop. Low ammo units will fire on their own and continue to fire if an enemy unit is close enough. From my experience close enough is in the range of 30-50m or so. This may depend on other variables, I don't know.

[blazethedog]

Hmmm, I'll take your word on the low ammo issue. I was kinda hoping to see some hand to hand combat. Last night I had 2 german squads with low ammo enter a small house in some city fighting and low and behold there is a russian squad already there. My guys were still almost full strength and the AI's squad was down to 1 man. They must have be less than 3 meters apart. I watched for 2 turns as the germans chucked the few remain grenades and the little commie before he finally died. With odds of 17-1, I think they could have just gone over there and given him a real spanking and sent him home to mommy!

[Windopaene]

I just finished a PBEM of "A Deadly Affair", which, in spite of my truck convoy getting absolutely blasted to nothingness, I was able to salvage a draw out of. What can I say but: "Cannister, don't leave Berlin without it!"

[ October 23, 2002, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Windopaene ]

[imported_Hiram Sedai]

I'm currently playing against two confirmed pillow biters. Since this is such an astoundingly important topic, I thought it warrented a bump.