kburns24 Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 I did a search and came up with three threads with the word haystack in it, but none addressed this being a possible doodad. MikeyD inquired about it back in Feb. 02', but there weren't any responses to his question. Just wondering if BTS has said anything about this possible terrain feature and whether it can be used as cover. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 got my vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 ohmygodIcan'tbelieveyouwouldactuallydiscussthis!!!!!! I will not condone thepostponement for one millisecond of CM2 and/or CM II for this worthless spewing of ideas, suggestions, demands and whims, whycan'tyoujustkeepquietandandandand... <font color=tan>(Well, somone had to do it. Annoying, isn't it. Actually, you would have to get into a seriously groggy debate about the type of haystacks used in the different regions of the Soviet Union - were they all the same? North American haystacks and European ones were significantly different, were they not?)</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kburns24 Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 Ouch Michael. I'm definitely not a haystack grog! I imagine a few might come in to discuss the longevity of a haystack in relation to the amount of barn yard animals grazing on it vs. the rate of decay. I wouldn't think of delaying CMBB in any way, just wondering if this made it in. My credit card is standing by BTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 I remember reading that doodads are only eye candy and not part of the world MODEL CM uses. Doodads are placed randomly, I think each time the map is drawn, like between turns. For grass, tombstones, etc, it's no biggie. They are small and unobtrusive. They also don't do do anything to LOS or cover. Your haystack may be jumping around your field each turn!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaylord Focker Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 One way to differentiate between the North American haystack and the Ukranian haystack is not only by the average hieght, but also the Ukranian haystack was very elusive and rare in most parts of the Soviet Union after collectivization of the farms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kburns24 Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 Your right karch, I didn't think about it in that sense. The haystack would indeed be just like the trees in CM, every turn they are randomly plopped down in their square of scattered trees, woods, tall pines, etc. It would be eye candy, but it would be nice to see them sprinkled about if you use a farmland map. Another thought, use it as you would a single grid square of tall trees or woods. There could be a few haystacks shown in that square, a square that vehicles could drive through like scattered trees. You could setup ambushes from the haystack squares, but like scattered trees, vehicles can and will be spotted relatively easy. I know that LOS passes through scattered trees unhindered, but I think the LOS through the haystack square should be similar to that of woods or tall trees. I'm probably way off base, but its early morning here and I am pretty tired. Thanks for the responses guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloid Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 I think there should be a morale hit for operating too close to the "decaying Ukranian haystack" (unless it's frozen over in winter months). However, there should be a morale boost (and long command delay), for operating in the "Farmer's daughter in the Ukranian haystack". I would also assume the rarity factor for the FDITU haystack would be high. (Now that would make an interesting mod... bet MM has that one already in his bag of tricks) Aloid [ August 21, 2002, 03:07 AM: Message edited by: Aloid ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vskalex Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: North American haystacks and European ones were significantly different, were they not?Well, The European variant doesn't migrate, does it? [ August 21, 2002, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: vskalex ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 What's it's average airspeed velocity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Splinty: What's it's average airspeed velocity?Laden or unladenblabhblahablah..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 No haystacks in CMBB. No doodads tall enough to mod into haystacks either, unless you want to mod the bushes doodads into teeny weeny haystacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Haystacks actually did have a serious military role in the fighting in the steppe. Because the ground is otherwise so bare, it was relatively difficult to hide anything large. But the haystacks were there and fit in, looked relatively inconspicuous, etc. So tanks were hidden inside them, or drapped over with hay as camo; bunkers were built into them, or PAK positions. If there weren't many around, the other guy might put a round into each one, just in case. But that could wind up being a lot of ammo by the time you advance 10-15 miles, so it was not practical to do it without reason for suspicion. Think of them as "large dummy" counters from a certain old boardgame. Might be nothing, might hide a vehicle, gun, or bunker. Perhaps they could be "fortifications", very cheap, allowing a defender to conceal positions somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: ohmygodIcan'tbelieveyouwouldactuallydiscussthis!!!!!!im crushed . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Chad Harrison: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: ohmygodIcan'tbelieveyouwouldactuallydiscussthis!!!!!!im crushed . . . </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Chad Harrison: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: ohmygodIcan'tbelieveyouwouldactuallydiscussthis!!!!!!im crushed . . . </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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