"Grenadiers!" opinions? (retitled from Hey Rommel22!)

[Panzer Leader]

Can some one give me a good quick review of this book?

I think it was you (Rommel22)who was talking about the book "Grenadiers!" buy Kurt "Panzer" Meyer. So, what do you think of the book? I have a chance to pick up a used copy. So, give us a run-down lad.

[ April 15, 2002, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Panzer Leader ]

[ParaBellum]

Though I'm not Rommel22 I'll post my impressions.

First, I'd like to say that it's surely interesting to read. The book gives an account of Kurt Panzermeyer Meyer's actions from the start of WW2 in Poland 'til his release from canadian prison after the war.

There have been lots of discussions about Panzermayer as a person, though.

He wasn't only the youngest divisional commander of the Waffen-SS, a brave soldier who was admired by his comrades, he was also a true nazi officer who admired Hitler and had a pic of him in his living room even after the war, as mentioned by his son who, BTW wrote a very interesting book about his father and his relation to him and his family.

He clearly supported the nazi politics and we don't hear critical passages about the "war of annihilation" in the east from him.

Killing and torturing prisoners do, of course, only the russians...

As with all personal accounts it's interesting as long as you know what you are reading.

He gives very immersive accounts from what it meant to spearhead the Blitzkrieg and the horrible fighting on the eastern front to the battles in Normandy.

He takes you on a journey from the fields of Poland to high mounatin passes in Greece and into the icy winters of Russia.

So, I'd recommend the book. It's easy to read, full of dramatic moments and if you read it criticically you'll learn a lot about Meyer.

[ April 15, 2002, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: ParaBellum ]

[WWB]

Actually, if anyone can email regarding some scans of his account of the fighting in Kharkov in March of 43, it would be greatly appreciated.

This would be the re-taking of the city, not the initial retreat.

WWB

[Panzer_Meyer]

Hi PL,

Yes, Grenadiers is an exelent book, I've read it a couple of time now and still read passages from it time to time.

The book takes you trough Meyers carrier in the SS. He took part in the Annexation of Czechkoslovakia, invasion of Poland, Greece, Yoguslavia, France, Russia and was back in France comamnding a regiment from the 12th SS hitler jugend in 1944.

His accounts from the east are amazing, very detailed and he shares his tactics and personal feeling at times on the battles and actions trough out the campaings.

Some of the battles he describes are amazing, without giving to much away, he talks about one where he and his "Auflkarung-Abteilung-1" storm a village and he is at the front of the charge in his armored car. The Advance goes real good and they suprise the Russians.

But all of a sudden there is a crash and a AT shell strikes the armored car, penetrates and blows of the arm of the driver. They jump out and of the armored car and run for cover, later being picked up by other soldiers.

He also talks about Sepp Dietrich, his commander, and he talks highly of him. He also mentions some of his best soldiers and officers, like Gerd Bremer a company comander, who survies the war with Meyer. He also mentions many others he is close friends with in his division, Fritz Witt, Max Wunshe and others.

At the end of the book, the last 2 or 3 chapters it's about him being captured and how he is treated and the trial in Canada. It was really interesting to read his thoughs on the trial and such and his treatment while there.

One thing you have to keep in mind though is that he was a Nazi, even though he does not mention it in the book, directly. He says that he did not commit any war crimes or gave orders to though his career. He says he never gave any orders for prisoners to be shot.

I highly reccomend this book, it is a must read, very detailed, historicly correct as far as I know. Plus you get read about Meyers thoughs trough out the war, his tactics and his later capture and trial. BUY IT NOW!

p.s hope this was helpful.

[WWB]

Disregard previous request--I ended up buying the book.

Amazon really is a dangerous thing.

WWB

[Andreas]

Haven't read 'Grenadiers', but IIRC 'Steel Inferno' (which is not without its own problems) does quite a good job at exposing Meyer for a bit of a drama queen, by comparing his constant 'my poor division got annihilated' to actual strength returns, which suggest nothing of the sort. So I would not go overboard on the historical correctness - I guess it is an amusing read if you can make yourself forget that the guy was apparently a convinced Nazi.

Regarding Sepp Dietrich's abilities, he was not universally well regarded by the professional officers who had to deal with him (hardly surprising, seeing his NCO background), and he made a bit of a hash out of the Ardennes shoulder battle he was tasked with.

[WWB]

Originally posted by Andreas:

Haven't read 'Grenadiers', but IIRC 'Steel Inferno' (which is not without its own problems) does quite a good job at exposing Meyer for a bit of a drama queen, by comparing his constant 'my poor division got annihilated' to actual strength returns, which suggest nothing of the sort. So I would not go overboard on the historical correctness - I guess it is an amusing read if you can make yourself forget that the guy was apparently a convinced Nazi.

Regarding Sepp Dietrich's abilities, he was not universally well regarded by the professional officers who had to deal with him (hardly surprising, seeing his NCO background), and he made a bit of a hash out of the Ardennes shoulder battle he was tasked with.

Andreas, while I do agree that the Nazi philosophy was odious at best, I am not certain that someone's known political persuasion makes a source any less valid. For scenario material, like any research, you have to take sources from many different angles, keep in account what purposes the source was written for, and make educated guesses as to the truth.

WWB

[Redwolf]

I would be curious to learn about any single decision that Dietrich made which is in any case exceptionally good (obvious ones excluded).

Or anything good about Steel Inferno, for that matter

[Panzer_Meyer]

Ok, I never said dietrich was "good". Meyer, mentiones him, because Sepp was Meyers commanding officer, so he has to mention him, abviously.

Meyer does not say any pro-nazi quotes or speeches or does not excuse nazis im the book. He mainly focus on the battles and the things that happen in between and more. He does not go into the polittical aspect at all. He has one paragraph about Hitler, and thats it.

So into the book, he does not come across as a Nazi, not to me anyway. He does not potray himself as one.

[Lindan]

Originally posted by redwolf:

...

Or anything good about Steel Inferno, for that matter

There was a discussion about this almost a year back and many informed people on this board think highly of the book. What are your issues with it?

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Rommel22:

He says that he did not commit any war crimes or gave orders to though his career. He says he never gave any orders for prisoners to be shot.

What Mayer says on the matter is reasonably irrelevant If Meyer had admitted to any such thing, he could have been (and probably would have been) prosecuted by the West German state, and could very likely have ended up in jail. So I think there were some incentives for him to stick to that line.

WWB - I disagree, I think that the political opinion of people can make their statements on events they were involved in (or not, as in the case of Carrell) very questionable. Also, as I said before, according to Reynolds Meyer was dramatising to quite some degree - which basically puts anything he says in doubt unless it is corroborated by an independent source. For scenario design I would look elsewhere. There are many good books covering the time around that will most likely be better sources. Then again, that is a matter of taste - to me, the political views of the man make me not want to pick up anything he wrote.

[Panzer_Meyer]

Andreas, have you even read the book, Grenadiers? If you haven't give it a chance, I think it's real good and it can certianly be used for Scenario design.

You might as well say the same about all the books written as they are all bias, when written by a veteran soldeir from any side. So does that mean we should not rely on any account written by veternas from whatever side, no. You use multily sources and learn from each one.

All things aside, the book is great, and thats whay PL was asking in the first place, not about the political views of Meyer. Thank you...

[Viceroy]

Panzer leader,

I would say it depended on the price. If you can get it cheaply it might be worth it, but as it sells for $42 or so and is quite popular it's unlikely to be a bargain.

My copy came as a gift and I would have been very diasppointed if I'd paid serious cash for it.

IMO Reynolds Steel Inferno or Men of Steel are better value and more useful for scenario making. He quotes many of the best lines from Grenadiers anyway.