What are "gamey" tactics, exactly?

[Cpt. Cook]

I have had CMBO for awhile, but I play against one or two friends exclusively or just against the AI.

So, what exactly are "gamey" tactics, and how are they circumvented by CMBB? I am going to buy it anyways so no need to convince me whether it is worth it.

With quick battles it is more obvious (such as casual use of weapons historically commonly unavailable) --but what about scenarios with preselected forces?

I promise I will not use this knowledge to my advantage.

[Soddball]

An example might be a 'gamey flag rush'. You are playing a game and have captured an enemy flag. On the last turn of the game your opponent rushes a unit close to the flag, denying you the points for that flag and altering the result.

Although, reasonably, there is no way that player could have kept control of the flag or even taken it from you, the fact that his unit is close enough to the flag to change it to neutral has affected the outcome.

CM:BB includes a randomiser, making the end of the game last a random number of turns longer - usually between one and seven turns - negating this effect.

There is BadCo's Endgame Randomiser, a free download for CM:BO, which should be available somewhere as a free download.

[KG ThorsHammer]

or when an opponent zips a cheap vehicle down a road on a suicide run, just to see what you have. I can just hear the conversation on that one, between a commander and the driver of a truck.

"why dont you drive up that road and see what you can see before they shoot you"

"It would be an honor sir, take my wallet, I wont be needing it"

more like...

" Have you lost your bloody mind!"

[Firefly]

Originally posted by KG ThorsHammer:

or when an opponent zips a cheap vehicle down a road on a suicide run, just to see what you have. I can just hear the conversation on that one, between a commander and the driver of a truck.

"why dont you drive up that road and see what you can see before they shoot you"

"It would be an honor sir, take my wallet, I wont be needing it"

more like...

" Have you lost your bloody mind!"

Ooh I get to be first to repeat Patton's real life quote.

'Drive down that road and see what shoots at you.'

Most 'gamey' tactics can be defeated by good tactics. Of course learning good tactics is not easy, I haven't managed myself yet.

[Screeny]

I guess gamey would be when a player exploits the "weakness" of modelling and/or exploiting the bugs in the game. (most known is the AA guns effectivness in CMBO, another non equipment related gamey issue is the use of the left and right borders of the map by advancing very close to the map edges being sure on flank is secured). These exploiting in a sense isn't gamey per se if both players agree on th euse of these equipment or tactics. Then you are playing A GAME (with a historical bases) if both want a more SIMULATION of history then they should agree on what is gamey and what not. Somehow these has evolved in so called "unwritten" rules in the hardcore CM community. I myself only played CM since 6 months now and learned these unwritten rules by reading the forum and talking to guys in chat rooms. Lately I made a mistake by assuming the PBEM opponent was a "veteran" as well knowing these rules. Unfortunately I guess now he don't know them because under the assumption that AA guns are banned I left them home, and now my tanks are hunted down by his airplanes. Not to blame him, or consider him gamey. I should have made it clear to him at the beginning, I didn't.

So in short: Gamey is a relative issue. Just make some good arragements with your opponent.

Here a COMPLETLY NON COMPLETE shortlist of common issues that are considered gamey (at least thing I have been accused of doing )

- Rush to the flag in the last round

- sending cheap unarmoured vehicles up front for recon

- using map edges as flank cover

- use of AA equipment and airplanes

- use of troops/equipment in large amounts that were historical rare (hehehe I got one oppononent really pissed on my by beating him with the use of a lt of 88mm Pupchen and 2 Jagdpanthers )

So if you want to be sure not to be accused of being gamey after winning (that is when people start moaning and wheening the most; after the loose) make sure you agree on at least the above issues. And I invite every one else in this forum to sent in more Gamey issues Maybe Battlefront can sell next year the BIG GAMEY HANDGUIDE for CMBO and CMBB

[Green Hornet]

I found this on the "Band of Brothers" Web site. It gives a good discussion and comprehensive list of the most common tactics considered "gamey" by most CM players.

I found it very useful.

Gamey Tactics from Band of Brothers Web site

[shatan]

Hi,

Regarding Edge Hunting. What am I supposed to do if there is not sufficient cover in the middle of the map, but the edge provides me good cover and an opportunity to advance? Would an advance up the edge be considered gamey in this instance?

[Mud]

If the edge provides the best cover, then feel free to use it. Bear in mind that if your units are routed by arty/other incoming, some may rout off the board...

Gamey == generally, abusing features/bugs that exist only because of limitations of the game engine.

Examples --

Wall of Fire:

In CMBO, fires are very well-behaved in that they neither spread nor die down. Ergo, especially a Commonwealth player with a bunch of Wasps can create an impenetrable Wall of Fire around, say, a victory location, with minimal risk to himself. Don't try this in CMBB...

Abuse of Rare Units:

Having large numbers of rare stuff like Wirbelwinds, Pumas and Super Pershings could be considered gamey.

Abuse of Buggy Units:

There are two unarmored German flak trucks which are a bit bugged, if memory serves, in that they're harder to kill than should be.

Grey Areas:

Certain rules conspire to make charging SMG platoons much more effective than they should be. MGs undersuppress and don't vary fire rates based on threat proximity, SMG teams get too much ammo relative to rifle teams, and running troops get too much benefit from cover. Having a force consisting mostly of SMG platoons unrealistically charging could be considered gamey.

[shatan]

Those two quirks (German flak truck and SMG squads) sound like bugs. Does anyone know if they are reported and/or going to be addressed?

[Toad]

I had a gamey tactic used against me once when my opponent snuck a single Bazooka team along the edge of the map and into hiding where my reinforcements were to show up. I lost my single Panther that was part of my reinforcement.

[Mud]

Shatan --

Not for CMBO. In CMBB, at least the SMG troops' power is fixed, through better MG modelling, different ammo distributions, reworking of the movement commands and their effects on cover et al, and so forth. Now, you have to pay much more attention to cover, defilades, suppression, recon-by-fire, et al as an attacker.

I haven't checked the flak trucks, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're fixed as well.

[noisy]

I would not normally associate using the map edge to cover a flank "gamey" in the strctest sense. The justification for this is that for both sides in a game battle secure the same benefit/penalty knowing that map edges are safe. Granted the value of a secure flank may vary with missions, victory locations, and offensive vs. defensive strategies.

I find the best way to avoid map edge hugging, at least in Quick-Battles, is to use really large maps for relatively few units. The random map generator tends to put victory locations near the center, thus negating some of the usefullness of hugging the edge.

[Cpt. Cook]

Screeny, I dig your "sig". I had to memorize that very Ode this year for a course I am taking.

...

So, according to your post, the Jagdpanther might be considered gamey? That is too bad because I usually get one for QBs, although they aren't great against infantry.

How exactly does advancing troops up the flank count as gamey? Is it because they have one less side to be seen from...?

Thanks for the link.

[Screeny]

Cpt Cook, hehe the sig is one of the few things I remember from my Latin lessons on high school, after highschool it became a kind of slogan of the "crew" I still meet from high school (it has been 12 years now since I left sniff those were the days..)

Anyway In my opinion jagdpanthers ain't gamey in the 'standard' cmbo qb 1500pts comb arms you can buy only one. in the 2000 pts version 2 is possible if I remember well. The one time I was accused of gamey was when I won from a guy.......the argument is that the jagdpanthers were only few produced and that 2 was not historically correct... well make up your own opinion. What was gamey from me however was the use of 4 88mm puppchen. these are very cheap in cmbo but can be deadly easpecially when 'massed' the downside is that they only have a range of 500mtrs. then again they are so small even a cheap but fast kubelwagen can transport them.....So yes I stopped using them not only for not being gamey but also my tanks tactics are a little bit better so I even score a kill on enemy tanks with my own. (but I can't promise I'll buy 1 or 2 just to make sure ).

On the flanking thingie (also known as 'edge hugging' you gave the answer yourself allready... aspecially with tanks this is considered gamey as the whole 'sport' is to hit the other in the side(lower armour in most cases and more sqr area to hit so easier target). With edge hugging one sid eis protected. Gamey indeed on the other hand, sometimes there is not a lot what you can do about it if the terrain dictates this. Most experienced players always have on both flanks a AT gun ready just in case, so that solves the poblem. Again here relativness is the point. really edge hugging is moving up 1 mtr from the edge of the map from your own set up zone to the other side. all more then 1 mtr is debatable imho.

On the other hand don't make to big fuss about this gamey issue, most players will tell you and then you nice apologise and make sure you don't do it again playing against them.

gr

Screeny

[imported_Major_Major]

Interesting topic, particularly for newbies like me. What's the deal with AA guns and planes? sounds like one's ineffective against the other and so the unspoken rule is to not use either unit in battle.