KG ThorsHammer

incredibly from what i have read, stationary non armored targets were apparently engaged at up to 1000 metres!...although practical engagment range for anti armour usage was suggested up to 150metres. Good info is available here http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust3.htm

hmmm,,well in order to fire the new ammunition, a fitting was placed on the end of the barrel on which the large HC round was placed...I would say that is a conversion

Glad i came across this thread. As has already been mentioned, a hollow charge round fitted to the end of 37mms gave them new life. Those that watched band of brothers may remember the scene during the attack on Carenten when the Fallschrimjagers wheeled one of them into position and fired it at infantry. I have been unable to find any good info on numbers of these conversions, usage and the same of similar guns. Anyone have a good site or two?

I agree with Tigrii; early on ,the Germans relied on tactics to overcome superior Russian tanks. I havnt got my CMBB copy yet, But from what I understand, the Russian crews arent that great early on. Charging is probably your best bet, as has already been said, hits at that range would be unlikely. Get in close and swarm..expect to take losses, but it is the only way.

now now guys..no need to be nasty

You are probably right,,the only thing I could suggest would be to keep infantry or a light vehicle right with the tanks, so when the AI tries it again, they will be gunned down at close range

Is anyone out there working on mods relating to the 5th ss Pz Dv " Viking ". A very well done Panther A of the Viking Dv was done for CMBO, but I cant remember who did that one. There are some shots of it at the link below Panther A [ December 26, 2002, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: KG ThorsHammer ]

weapon..[/qb]

by all means..if you have some info from the russian books you mentioned earlier that would be of interest..I may have misinterpreted your post as being somewhat "meow".....well anyway..carry on

well...the russians were of course the first to use paratroopers, but not as a tactical weapon..and sliding off the wing of an aircraft is not the best way to do it:P

hmm,,,the question was armoured fist or combined arms and how the germans should have learned from the russians and used combined arms. I havnt read the Russian books you listed, but if you are saying the Russians invented combined arms I will have to ask you to put down the crack pipe .

nothing, just an example of lack of direction on production. The only argument that could have been made was that with only the pz4 tank being produced in decent numbers while the bugs in the panther were being slowly worked out, the pz 3 was necessary to keep tank numbers up. This holds no salt with me however, as it was simply to inferior to be worthwhie:)

when i am selecting forces, i first figure out what i want, then i delete them all and select them again based on what troops/equipment are going to be grouped together during the battle. When they appear on the map, they start from the bottom right and go left. Basically, it just makes it easier as the units that will fight together are side by side on the map/ It is especially important for big games.

I cant beleive what I am hearing....Germans not learning from the Russians??!! It was the German armed forces that pioneered combined arms tactics in which tanks, infantry and artillary(ground or air), worked together to smash through the enemy front lines. The Russians eventually learned these lessons and put them to use with their own style. The problem the Germans faced as the war dragged on, was massive numerical superiority of their opponents in every department, especially the air. During the Kursk offensive, Model, (having only a few Pz Dvs), attempted to use his infantry Divisions to breach soviet lines for his armour, but they were simply outnumbered. Manstein had much more armour to play with and attacked with his Pz units which broke through to the last defensive lines. Although the offensive failed, the Russians suffered 850,000 casualties to the Germans 100,000. Inflicting an 8.5 to 1 casualty ratio attacking against a well prepared superior forces and coming close to victory is not indicative of faulty tactics. The biggest problem facing the Germans was Mr Adolf. Not allowing withdrawls cost huge numbers of troops and equipment, sapping the strength of the army. Generals did the best they could to cope under the circumstances. With ever increasing losses in men and material throughout the bulk of the army, The panzer and panzer grenadier divisions were given priority in men and equipment, making them the only units with the strength for offensive operations, and yet many were still really to weak to be effective. During the bulge, the hurridly raised volksgrenadier divisions did poorly, forcing the pz units into action prematurely. Most did well, but were too weak to maintain combat for long. Too summarize; when Pz Dvs were at a good strength level, their combined arms attacks were effective at breakthroughs, and pursuits, but deprived of manpower, vehicles, fuel and under air attack, success was fleeting.

I remember seeing a picture of a panzerjager 1 armed with 47mm AT gun in service with an SS division (cant remember which one though), not long into the invasion of Russia

Interesting question. The Finns were doing quite well on their own, so the addition of British/French forces with modern tanks and aircraft would have meant a serious problem for the bumbling Russian forces. Hitler could have seen this as an opportunity and attempted to form an alliance with them and attack Russia. I'm sure a swarm of anti communist volunteers would have joined up from all over Europe. I seriously doubt the Russians could have withstood such an onslaught. With the Soviets out of the picture, Hitler could have then turned West on his once allies had he wanted to, and there would be no Eastern front to draw away German forces

to be blunt, armour makes really dumb choices on targets in cmbo...something which has been fixed mostly from what i hear in cmbb. However, in this case, i think it was just bad luck. The (supposed) enemy infantry squad in so close was a real threat, so he engaged them, with the unfortunate side affect of knocking down the building and exposing himself

In CMBO, you basically have to guess that you are in a hull down position by looking at the terrain. Using the hunt command to move to a spot just below the top of a rise in the ground is a good way to most likely get into a hull down spot. The only way to really check if you are is to target an enemy and look at what it is saying on your tank. If you are hull down, it will say so.

Does anyone know what the hell we (the US) was thinking when we designed the Sherman? Did we have any concept of the threat posed by German tanks? I just find it strange that the US which always seemed to place more emphasis on men then material would take such a Russian view of it's tanks. Expecting to have to use 5 Shermans to engage one Panther and expecting to lose 3 to 4 of the Shermans in the process.[/QB]

Hitler decided to double the number of pz divisions for the attack on Russia. As tank production was still painfully slow, they supplied the new divisions by cutting the number of tanks per division in half. This was not necessarily a bad thing, as unless opposition was especially tough, 200 tanks could do the job of 400..it was the shock and concentration on a key point that mattered, like the heavy cavalry of old.

Just thought I would discuss something with the armour buffs, which also ties in with a CMBB question (Game is on its way:) ). Now I love the mystique of the Tiger, but personally I think producing only the Panther would probably made more sense. Contrary to belief, the Panthers gun actually had a better anti armour performance, although the tigers gun was better at soft targets with its HE rounds. The Panther also had approximately the same protection in the front,maybe even better with it being sloped, but the Tiger did have much better side armour, and the Tigers armour was always kept at a very high standard. Lastly, the Panther was lighter and faster, having the same engine. When you compare them, they seem to balance each other out with their different strengths and weaknesses, but there is one more point; Men working the same hours could produce 2 Panthers for the cost of 1 Tiger. That to me makes it a no brainer. Instead of lets say 80 Tigers a month, the factory was producing 160 Panthers in addition to existing production of Panthers..... Still, when the Tiger came out, the Panther was still aways from being available in decent numbers, so I think it would have been worthwhile to produce for a time. My question to CMBB owners is "do you think the Tiger is more historically accurate in CMBO, in terms of protection and effectiveness?"

If you are looking for the best all around AT gun, for most scenarios, the 75mm PAK is the best bet. My personal favorite is the 50mmPAK however..high rate of fire and sometimes a few rare tungsten rounds. Even with just AP rounds, its still good enough to knock out most allied tanks, even shermans at closer ranges.

We have talked about the stupidest things you've done, but what about some of your proudest military achievments. For me, hmm,,lets see; One thing I remember, even though it is nothing huge, took place when I played "crown of thorns" On the defensive as the Germans, I placed a group of 6 snipers as far forward as I could near the edge of the map, and then snuck them forward through a wheat field and kept them hidden. Many enemy troops went by and the battle raged. Finally, a group of heavy tanks loaded with infantry, observers, etc appeared and approached. It was his hammer blow on my right flank. I took my snipers out of hide mode and within a couple of turns, most of his tank commanders were dead, and his riding infantry had suffered considerable casualties and were running around. He mopped up the snipers eventually, but was forced to advance his tanks without support by the time everything was sorted out. His tanks did not do well with many a commander dead, and no infantry.

I seem to vaguely remember a battle against the AI for CMBO in which I ordered a column of halftracks loaded with elite panzergrenadiers and lead by a panther tank, down a winding dirt road flanked by dense trees. I was "sure" the enemy couldnt have gotten forces to the opening on the other side, and I plotted the whole column to an area beyond the exit. As I watched the video,it became clear a group of Shermans had set up shop around the exit. To my horror, I watched my speeding column be knocked out vehicle by vehicle as they emerged from the woods one at a time. Not one panzergrenadier even survived, except for a full squad that surrendered