ham Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 The boxed Combat Mission, distributed by CDV, seems to have Waffen SS renamed to Waffen Grenadiers. Probably becouse of the legal issues in Germany. Anyway, I'd rather see them labeled as SS than WG, anyone know how to change it ? I guess it will be the same thing with the euro versio of CMBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Ham, I believe that the German CDV Combat Mission Forum has had some pointers as to how to do this, unless, of course, they took the posts down for legal reasons. CDV German Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham Posted April 25, 2002 Author Share Posted April 25, 2002 Hmm. Thanks for the reply but didnt find it there (my deutsch ain't that great anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 well that's CDV for you. Serves you right for purchasing from CDV. Waffen Grenadiere - now there's an idea, wait, come to think of it, more of a tautology. Man, I knew they'ld be able to muck up even a product such as CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 A side question; In which countries, except from Germany, are CMBO distributed to the shops? TIA Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayer Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 I was in London last month and CM was on shelves there for 29 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 You can get it in several shops in Stockholm Olle, either the boxed version or the small "DVD box" version, don't know about Sundsvall. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 Do they stock it in Tijuana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 Originally posted by M Hofbauer: well that's CDV for you. Serves you right for purchasing from CDV. Waffen Grenadiere - now there's an idea, wait, come to think of it, more of a tautology. Man, I knew they'ld be able to muck up even a product such as CM.I hardly think failing to use the letters SS in the game mucks it up. Anyone with half a brain knows what waffen grenadiers really means anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 Originally posted by Bruno Weiss: Do they stock it in Tijuana?Yes, but there the SS are known as 'Waffen Banditos'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 ... and be careful of "Montezuma's Revenge." Quite nasty, my buddy came down with it last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 Is that the one where you spend the weekend on the toilet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Hopefully not after eating nachos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Hoffbauer: Waffen Grenadiere - now there's an idea, wait, come to think of it, more of a tautology.Thanks! I came up with that one myself Yes... surprise! CDV only required us to remove the things which could have resulted in CM being banned and CDV hauled into court. We came up with the substitute. I thought that one up so it would be clear to any idiot what it was supposed to be. Thankfully German law is fairly specific which meant I could come up with a term that was VERY close, but still be exempted from legal hassle. Man, I knew they'ld be able to muck up even a product such as CM.First of all, if removing something like this mucks up a game, then I think you should reevaluate why you play games Second, CDV had no choice but to require us to remove the Nazi stuff. Not only for the German release, but for all of Europe. See... the German laws, which they rightly are trying to avoid being prosecuted under, are rather stringent and no nonsense. If an English version came over from the UK into Germany, and a German company's name was on the box... guess what! Same as if they made it and sold it in German within Germany. So thanks to German law, they had no choice but to require the SS stuff (and any Nazi symbology, phrases, etc) to be removed from ANYTHING with their name on it. Now... you guys should be asking the obvious question... did we try and avoid having these things removed? The answer is a BIG YES. But in the end CDV's point could not be argued with because we were in fact arguing with the German legal system. That is something we have NO chance of winning, so we did what had to be done. Doesn't mean we liked doing it or agree with the laws. However, CDV did the right thing under German law and they should not be peed on for it. Man... I never thought I would come to the defense of a Publisher for butchering history, but there you go Steve P.S. Yes, if CDV publishes CMBB the same thing will have to happen with the Nazi related symbols and terms. Unless, of course, German law suddenly changes! [ April 26, 2002, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Big Time Software ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Originally posted by Mattias: You can get it in several shops in Stockholm Olle, ..., don't know about Sundsvall.The only ones selling computer games here are the larger nation-wide chains that specialise in other products, and they don't have it. (Think Åhléns, El-Giganten, etc.) My question was not about special import but main distribution. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Well, the difference is just one of degrees, isn't it In any event, I know Åhléns (probably the biggest city center warehouse chain in Sweden) in Stockholm sells CM, so anyone who is interested should not have any problem acquiring it. The real problem as far as number of sales is concerned is the lacking exposure and, simply, CM getting lost in the massive flood of games continually streaming by. But, again, that's not new... M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 German *law* (videlicet, § 86a StGB) merely prohibits the use of national-socialst insignia and symbols (runes, swastikas etc.). The simple *term* W-SS does not fall under this. You have Tamyia etc. W-SS items all over the place labeled as such. Plastic kits are considered toys by criminal courts. They'ld be banned if they showed symbology of the SS, which they therefore don't. They continue to use the term W-SS without being harmed, you can buy them in stores all over the place. Unless you are talking about the adventures of the BPjS, the censorship buraeu for youth-endangering material. But that is not the legislative or judiciary, but a rather erroneous part of the executive/administrative branch. If the BPjS didn't agree with s.th. it would be banned from over-the-counter sale to prohibit sale to minors, but it doesn't make CM illegal, and CDV wouldn't be "hauled into court". I do admit it might harm sales in germany if they were labeled censored by the BPjS. But CDV doesn't sell in germany alone. Oh, well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Hi Markus, yes, you are correct on all terms with what you said above. Unfortunately, the word of the BPJS is as "final" as that of the legislative or judiciary and not to be argued with And I guess you can imagine that being prevented from over-the-counter sales in Germany would mean a rather drastic restriction to a german retail-based publisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japper Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Hello, I'm from the Netherlands and was very happy when I heard of Combat Mission being distributed here by CDV. I wasn't able to buy it online at first and buying online is not something I'm very comfortable with. Therefore buying it in the shops (although a little late -2 years after release )without Swastika and SS runes, doesnt really bother me that much. I would like to thank Big Time Software for publishing through CDV and hope to see CMBB the same way! PS. I don't think I can again wait two years! It's time to overcome my online buying fears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Actually, M Hofbaur, I have seen Tamiya kits sold in Germany and in all the cases I have seen, the "SS" is either blacked out or in the case of decal sheets, even cut out, and that includes the littls "SS" at the beginning of SS licence plates. I believe they consider "SS" to be an actual symbol not just two letters. Maybe the law is unclear, or maybe I am wrong and you are right, but I've seen them like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham Posted April 27, 2002 Author Share Posted April 27, 2002 Yes, the difference between Waffen SS and Waffen Grenadiers isnt that big factor in game. I for one just would like to see real historical names and symbols used in a historical simulation. Kinda like having US Army renamed to US Self Defence Forces, nothing big just something you'd like to get fixed somehow. Sooo... Anyone knowing a way to change it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Originally posted by Panzer Leader: Actually, M Hofbaur, I have seen Tamiya kits sold in Germany and in all the cases I have seen, the "SS" is either blacked out or in the case of decal sheets, even cut out, and that includes the littls "SS" at the beginning of SS licence plates. I believe they consider "SS" to be an actual symbol not just two letters. Maybe the law is unclear, or maybe I am wrong and you are right, but I've seen them like that.no, the law is not unclear (at least not in that respect), and I never said anything that contradicts what you are saying: Notice in above post I expressively cited the SS - runes and swastikas as examples of NS - symbology. Again: symbology is a nono, and the ss-runes with their typical nordic rune - style are such symbology. The simple letters SS as such (like yous ee them here) are letters and not a symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 btw, Moon, of course I agree with you. of course it is economically prudent to tone down a game in compliance with actual or perceived BPJS criteria (you never know what they're up to). It's just my usual dislike of CDV that prompted my first post, and in my second post I just wanted to make clear it is not a legal issue as regards criminal law. BTS in their wisdom (uh, just noticed, BTS now includes you, too ) already made the game compliant with §86a in its original, non-CDV form. Do you know if CMBB will sell via CDV from the start, and if that means Waffengrenadiere for everyone, or will there still be an original, different online version which will be §86a - compliant but with correct terms such as W-SS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auggy Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Why don't they sell games in stores in the U.S.? I haven't seen the game at all and I think sales would increase if you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Sir Augustus, have a look at our Manifesto (somewhere in our resources section I think) and you will have the answer. Markus, no matter what happens with CDV, the original US version will have them SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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