I think I found a couple bugs with pillboxes

[StellarRat]

I was playing the Hungarians on defense in a QB. The Russians attacked and my pillboxes w/MGs mowed them down in hordes. But, then as soon as the pillboxes ran out of ammo the crews abandoned them and ran out into enemy fire taking casualities for no reason. They would have been much safer staying and fighting from the pillboxes with their small arms rather than abandoning. The crews hadn't taken any casualities until they abandoned. Also, at the end of the game the two pillboxes were listed as destroyed. I think these might be bugs or at the minimum something that needs to be tweaked in the AI for more realism.

[ October 06, 2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: StellarRat ]

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

RTFM

It's in the book. Crews ditch their bunkers after they run outta juice. I agree thou, they would be better to stay inside. I wonder if the abandoned boxes that had run out of ammo score VPs for your opponent?

[ October 06, 2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Vader's Jester ]

[Shadow 1st Hussars]

It was the same in CMBO. Crews get the f*** outta dodge when they have no ammo left.

[StellarRat]

OK, it's not a bug, but it's stupid. By the way, I read the manual twice, but did not remember that passage, however, I'm sure it's in there if you guys say so.

[ October 06, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: StellarRat ]

[Wilhammer]

Perhaps they chose this to keep it from becoming a gamey issue.

I could see a pillbox manned by a crew, out of ammo, hunkered down relatively impervious to enemy fire, at the end game, holding a VP.

[StellarRat]

Why is that "gamey"? They would still have their personal weapons and the enemy might not know they're out of ammo. And it is possible that they might be resupplied after the battle (unless they're surrounded.) A squad with no ammo would still count and the crew of the pillbox was seven men.

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by Wilhammer:

Perhaps they chose this to keep it from becoming a gamey issue.

I could see a pillbox manned by a crew, out of ammo, hunkered down relatively impervious to enemy fire, at the end game, holding a VP.

That sounds like a legitimate way to hold a VL.

[Foxbat]

I sure wouldn't want to stay in the pillbox after the ammo had run out (which in itself implies the pillbox is under attack), that's just suicide.

[Ellros]

Originally posted by StellarRat:

Why is that "gamey"?

My second sig says it all... <g>

-Rob, back after a long hiatus.

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by Foxbat:

I sure wouldn't want to stay in the pillbox after the ammo had run out (which in itself implies the pillbox is under attack), that's just suicide.

But the original poster was pointing out that the crews run out into the open under hostile fire, which is even more suicidal.

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wilhammer:

Perhaps they chose this to keep it from becoming a gamey issue.

I could see a pillbox manned by a crew, out of ammo, hunkered down relatively impervious to enemy fire, at the end game, holding a VP.

That sounds like a legitimate way to hold a VL.</font>

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Foxbat:

I sure wouldn't want to stay in the pillbox after the ammo had run out (which in itself implies the pillbox is under attack), that's just suicide.

But the original poster was pointing out that the crews run out into the open under hostile fire, which is even more suicidal.</font>

[Speedy]

Look at it this way, the crew has run out of ammunition, there are hordes of Russians advancing on their position. I know what I would do and it wouldn't be hunkering down in the bunker hoping the scenario will end before the Russians get there and eat me.

[StellarRat]

Originally posted by Speedy:

Look at it this way, the crew has run out of ammunition, there are hordes of Russians advancing on their position. I know what I would do and it wouldn't be hunkering down in the bunker hoping the scenario will end before the Russians get there and eat me.

Well, in this case the Russians were pretty far away and there was plenty of Hungarian infantry around the pillbox that was still capable of defending. Personally, I don't know why anyone would abandon those nice thick concrete walls when they are under small arms fire. In fact, if I was an infantry unit I'd probably try to move into the pillbox and fire from there. Now, if engineers or some type of heavy weapons were closing in/firing then I could see running away when the ammo ran dry (possibly before even ). Also, I see no reason why the crew can't continue to fire from the pillbox with their own weapons.

[Panzer Leader]

You know, as a work-around, once you get into the single digits of ammo, just put a covered arc out to only a few meters. Then they won't fire off their last few rounds except in dire emergency. Hey, you know what, that would be historically accurate as well! Whaddya know!

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

Good call PL.

[CMplayer]

That was pretty clever PL.

Now send a friggin turn! :mad:

[CMplayer]

There was a second part to the original post which is that the pillboxes were listed as destroyed, even though they were in an area still controlled by friendly forces. This must be a side effect of the design decision to treat pillboxes as vehicles in the engine. It's definitely not right, but probably something we'll have to live with until the rewrite when WE CAN HOPE PILLBOXES WILL BE MERE FORTIFICATIONS which anyone with the keys to the door can enter, exit, and fight from at wil.

[ October 07, 2002, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: CMplayer ]

[AUSSIEJEFF]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

There was a second part to the original post which is that the pillboxes were listed as destroyed, even though they were in an area still controlled by friendly forces. This must be a side effect of the design decision to treat pillboxes as vehicles in the engine. It's definitely not right, but probably something we'll have to live with until the rewrite when WE CAN HOPE PILLBOXES WILL BE MERE FORTIFICATIONS which anyone with the keys to the door can enter, exit, and fight from at wil.

I'll second that, CMplayer. Just like trenches can now be entered / exited by whichever side holds 'em. Good call.

AJ