Armor on 100 points or less...

[Jaldaen]

This is an offshoot from the "which tank is best" thread... My question is what would you get if all you had was 100 points to spend on armor? When Attacking? When Defending? Axis? Allied? and Why?

[mPisi]

Since nobody jumped up, I'll give it a shot... These are kinda assuming the enemy only has 100 points for armor as well.

Germans = Hetzer without a doubt, defending for sure. Attacking maybe, or put points towards a Wespe (are they <100?) for some fire support, or maybe StuG.

Brits = Sexton, awesome HE load and usually some AP as well, and can take out the lower German tanks, and no problems that I know of with shooting HE at vehicles like the Priest or Sherm(105). Downside is no MG.

Americans = Priest, same as Sexton except iffier against armor. Possibly an M8 HMC, but they run out of HE too fast for my taste.

Also are Stuarts <100 at regular? Another good all around tank...

One item I found useful once in a 300pt QB (mechanized maybe) was a Ram Kangaroo. It could shrug off hits from the light German tanks and ACs...

[Vergeltungswaffe]

For Germans, definitely Hetzer, with Marder III in second place. For Allies, the M8 HMC is an awesome weapon, highly underrated, with the M20 being very useful also.

[Pak40]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jaldaen:

This is an offshoot from the "which tank is best" thread... My question is what would you get if all you had was 100 points to spend on armor? When Attacking? When Defending? Axis? Allied? and Why?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tough one.

Attacking: I'd get armor that fits the anti-tank role.

-PUMA for the Germans. It's fast and has a decent gun.

-U.S., You cant get a tank destroyer so I'd get a M5 or Priest

Defending: I'd get armor that fits an anti infantry role. Leave the antitank work to the AT guns and bazookas.

- StuH or STG III for germans.

- Priest for the U.S.

[Ron]

US: if available my first choice would be the M24 Chaffee without a doubt, small and fast with the same gun as the Sherman.

Brits: Sexton, as noted the Sexton has no MG which limits its use somewhat offensively but the main gun's punch makes up for that.

Germans: first choice would be the StugIII attacking or defending, good armor and good gun, plus it has a useful MG, something the Hetzer lacks except in close assault range.

[Panther131]

Under 100 points I like the Stuh42. Great infantry killer and it has the ability to take out Shermans with its hollow charge with relative ease. Bring Vet Panzerfausts for insurance.

Stu42 - 79 or 83 for regulars.

[Conscript Bagger]

On defense I'd be tempted to forego vehicles altogether - 100 points of AT guns, mines, or support weapons are a lot less likely to be killed with one lucky shot.

I don't remember the cost off the top of my head, but that German 75mm recoilless rifle packs a decent HE punch, and has several antiarmor rounds too.

[Warmaker]

Not as familiar with the Allies to make a decision on their selection.

For the Germans, at regular levels, the Hetzer, hands down, no doubt about it. The StuzH'42 is nice for a pure anti-personnel role but when I get panzers, their main role is to deal with Allied armor. In addition, at regular exp. levels, the 105mm of the StuH'42 is too long... but then again the Hetzer has a long reload time too.

The Marders are too one dimensional. Generally, a flimsy, mobile ATG. Poor armor, no MGs, little HE capacity = poor mainstream Axis choice. Their only benefit is mobility and allowing the Axis player to quickly shift his AT defenses. They've got a big silhouette too (nearly equaling a Tiger?).

There's one more opinion I need to add: The Germans have a lousy <100pt armor selection, except for the Hetzer, but a turretless TD is quite limited in the offense so that cuts it down from it's overall appeal (for me anyways). The Allies have a nice selection of <100pt armor. Some sort of 37mm or 50mm gunned panzer would've been GREATLY welcomed to deal with those Allied lights on an equal and efficient manner (using a Panther/Tiger on Stuarts is a waste IMO, unless it is the only Allied armor on map).

Just my thoughts.

[CombinedArms]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warmaker:

There's one more opinion I need to add: The Germans have a lousy <100pt armor selection, except for the Hetzer, but a turretless TD is quite limited in the offense so that cuts it down from it's overall appeal (for me anyways). The Allies have a nice selection of <100pt armor. Some sort of 37mm or 50mm gunned panzer would've been GREATLY welcomed to deal with those Allied lights on an equal and efficient manner (using a Panther/Tiger on Stuarts is a waste IMO, unless it is the only Allied armor on map).

Just my thoughts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Warmaker makes a good point. Allies have Stuarts, Greyhounds, Priests, Chaffees, M8 HMCs (all as suggested above) for less than 100 points. How much do Pumas cost? Apparently only 50-100 were made, but their pervasive presence on the CM battlefield, even in historical scenarios, reflects a felt need for a light, cheap, effective German AFV in the CM context.

Another point is that for <100 you've got to accept some trade-offs. At that price, I'll generally accept light armor if I can get high speed and a decent gun--even the Allied 37mm can kill a Panther from the side --or low speed and a mighty gun. Often such a gun at that price is relatively one-dimensional: good AT but weak HE or vice versa. The Hetzer's great frontal armor and good gun are also a good compromise.

[Warmaker]

To add to the mess with "light" German armor this further compounds my problems: The closest "light" panzer is the Lynx. For a reconaissance vehicle it bites into a German player's few armor points in most QB games (other than Unrestricted/Armor force selections). I can deal with the Lynx's light armor, but the gun is only truly efficient against Allied HTs and suppressing infantry. Yes, the Lynx is cheap, but not worth the few points an Axis player gets for armor.

The one redeeming value of the Pumas are the tailoring possible for a mission with the different weapons (50mm/75mm/20mm). I can play with a Puma but I just don't pick them too much out of preference.

Something like a PzKpfw III with a 50mm gun would be nice for this "light" role but they're out production in CMBO's timeframe.

[Cybeq]

Hmm, A very intriguing subject. I'll assume you absolutely will not go over 100 pts. In that case my choices would be:

Allied defending:M10 Wolverine Tank Destroyer (98pts.)

Allied attacking:M24 Chaffee Light Tank (100pts.)

Axis defending:Hetzer (84pts.)

Axis attacking:StuGIV (99pts.)

If you favor quantity over quality you could get two H39 Hotchkiss's (46pts.) I've personally never used these but there must be a reason they're dirt cheap.

[Warmaker]

Actually, I've used a pair of Hotchkisses to give them a whirl... only in a QB against AI though. They were summarily destroyed by a single conscript Stuart. Quite spectacular actually they way these things died.