von Lucke Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 I've played this scenario on/with various platforms and game systems --- everything from cardboard to miniatures to computers. So, of course, it was the first scenario I loaded up when I finally received The Game (v1.01 and MadDog Mod). I put the hammer down, and my single Tiger Fast-Moved toward Villers-Bocage... My first kill as Wittmann was a lowly Universal Carrier: The little APC was driving full-speed away from me, a Catastrophic Explosion ensued, and then it crashed into a small house (half in / half out), where it stuck, burning and smoking... And that's when I knew this was the game I'd been waiting for! Thanks Steve, Charles, and everybody else who had a hand in this! Most thoroughly excellent work! [This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 06-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 Keep shooting everything in sight. Danger will appear from every angle. That ain't a spoiler, just a friendly warning Wild Bill ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder1 Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 hehe, I did it as the Brits... was touch n go for a while but I did manage a tactical victory...barely... ------------------ this is pathfinder's evil twin [This message has been edited by pathfinder1 (edited 06-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 Thanks, Pathfinder. I was curious as to how it would play among you gentlemen as the British. Wittmann alone is still a tough hombre and he is hard to take out. I'm glad to know it played that well for you. WB ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted June 26, 2000 Author Share Posted June 26, 2000 Actually, yr warning came too late --- I ended up walking home! Yup, those easy pickin's only get tougher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 that was a nasty nasty nasty nasty operation. I walked home too, as germans, not a single internal combustion engine running on my side when i called for ceasefire..... soemhow i got a minor victory, because of kills, but i never made it into town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Sessine Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 Hi guys, I too loaded up the scenario as one of the first, but I was quite disappointed with it. I know only of the Villiers-Bocage incident from various historical sources, and from what I have gained through these, the scenario map seems to be totally unhistorical. Its a bit difficult to go into, but the terrain around V-Bocage is NOT flat, and the village was smaller than is depicted here. Its too bad, but it just might make me do my first scenario ... This serves to illustrate the importance of the maps. They vary a lot in the game. Some are beautiful and look 'real', which is important for immersion, others are uninspired and do CM's graphics engine little justice. Examples: the first map in the 6 FJ reg operation is very good, whereas the Arnhem map seem too sterile. Just a few thoughts. /CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 Count Sessine said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I too loaded up the scenario as one of the first, but I was quite disappointed with it. I know only of the Villiers-Bocage incident from various historical sources, and from what I have gained through these, the scenario map seems to be totally unhistorical. Its a bit difficult to go into, but the terrain around V-Bocage is NOT flat, and the village was smaller than is depicted here.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I believe what everyone is talking about is the Operation Count, not the scenario. I agree that the map in the scenario is not as faithful to the area around Villers-Bocage as it could be. I have also done a scenario of the first battle... with a more realistic map (although as Los pointed out to me, it is too short). If you are interested in it send me an e-mail and I will send it along. It plays very historically. I have also been working on a SUPER realistic version of the map and scenario... but other commitments are keeping me from completing it. (DAMN YOU MADMATT!) Bil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 Hey, why is Wittmann a lowly Unterscharfuehrer? He should be a Hauptsturmfuehrer! I haven't spent much time with the scenario editor but this probably has somehting to do with not being able to edit the ranks of the unit leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 I've enjoyed both the scenario and the operation. They are tough from both sides. Ya gotta respect the power of the Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 .............Semi spoilage.............. Well, I had a much easier time as the Allies than as the Germans. Those fireflies are mean especially with the Tigers trying to swat all the damn bailed crews from the stinking HTs and bren carriers. I didn't realize that the Brit crews were all conscript or green. It sure didn't seem that way when they were getting one-shot kills on my tigers. When I was using them it was nice watching the textbook bracketing going on. One shot ploughs into the dirt in front of the tank and the next goes over and then it's time to get the hell out of there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted July 11, 2000 Share Posted July 11, 2000 RMC Re: Wittman's rank, one thing CM editor does not allow you to do at this point is change the rank of leaders so we were stuck there. Sorry. RE: Playing as the Allies. It's not to hard to do better than the brits, unless you commit yourself to adopting the mindset that your tired, slack of security, and feel like brewing up some T at the beginning of the game and then scramble around desperately for a few turns. Seriously though it can be difficult toc apture as a scenario designer extreme acts of courage or luck through the flow of the game. The best you can do is set the begiining of the games situation to match what the hell happened in real life. For instance the Brits in Real Life were neither green nor conscrpit troops (well most of them weren't) but it's the only way to give Wittman even a fighting chance down that long road sicne eth AI does not suffer from the particular fog that the brits seemed to those first few terrible minutes when Wittman turned left onto the main road to Villers-Bocage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted July 12, 2000 Share Posted July 12, 2000 I wasn't really commenting on the decision to give them conscript and green crews. I don't know enough about the battle to make that call. I did find it odd when I played the Brits when I noticed it solely because I didn't get any indication that they were that bad when I played the Germans. I don't know what dynamic, if any, was in effect that made them seem more competent when the AI was in charge. On the other hand, the AI is definitely not up to the task of doing "The Wittmann" and going down the road. It sits there waiting to be stimulated. Also, for whatever reason (FOW seems to be default off?), the scenario started without fog of war when I first played it and the AI seemed to do much better even though I could see everything he had. Once I turned on fog of war, Wittmann was able to charge into town and kill the first batch of armor fairly easily. Before that he would get dinged up pretty bad. I think the other thread on the main board addressed the issue of Wittmann wasting ammo on bailed crews when there was armor to tackle. That had me yelling at the "armor ace" cause he was so stupid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted July 12, 2000 Share Posted July 12, 2000 Yes just because teh AI is supposed to be green doesn'ty mean that they don't hit hard but i do think it makes them "brittle". And yes re: The AI playing Wittman, the AI definately uses more common sense than he did that day, however at the confluence of time positioning and events What Michael did worked for him. Thanks for the TIP on FOW, now that you noticed it when I played it I had to go and set that to full. I will make some chancges and see if we can't update it in the next release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittmann Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 I love this scenario to bits...I died several times getting cocky...but then aced it with a bit of caution in the right places Axis tally was 27 allied armour kills. I don't remember the rest of the stats, or how many Witt bagged, but he was immobilised just like reality,and continued to be a pill-box for the rest of the scenario. At least he didn't bail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted November 13, 2000 Share Posted November 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Formerly Babra: I've enjoyed both the scenario and the operation. They are tough from both sides. Ya gotta respect the power of the Tiger.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not so sure, when a Stuart can pick off the Tiger without blinking, and the mighty Tiger is more interested in chasing vehicle crews than noticing the Allied tanks coming its way... It must be a green tank crew masquerading as a top quality unit. Seriously, I think the Allied guns are given a bonus in this game, in ASL things seemed more realistic, it seems to me. Good luck in ASL trying to pick off a Tiger using Shermans, let alone a Stuart! It was much harder to do in ASL than it is in CM. Grrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted November 13, 2000 Share Posted November 13, 2000 A Stuart taking out a Tiger is indeed highly unlikely, very highly unlikely. I would agree. If, however, the Tiger commander is careless, these things could happen. Now in my scenario, (although Count Essine and Bil Hardenberger don't seem to approve of it. Did you guys ever do your super realistic scenarios?) Wittmann is elite, which is as experienced and as expert as they come. It give the Tiger a tremendous advantage, but does not make it invulnerable to that one in a thousand shot. Now if you are referring to the operation done by Los, I can't say. Or if, as Bil Hardenberger's scenario of the same battle I can't say about that one either. I don't have the Bil Hardenberger scenario, but I checked Los Wittmann tank and it too has an elite tank commander. I guess these are the fortunes of war sometimes. ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted November 14, 2000 Share Posted November 14, 2000 Thanks Bill. Actually it's the scenario, not the operation. I had better luck with another try, I saved my game at turn 8, just before my first Tiger died, and tried something else. I left the reinforcement Tigers behind those houses by the road, and they just waited for the Allied units to crawl forward. One by one, the Allied tanks brewed up. I had problems with the first Tiger though, I tried to zig zag through the town to take out as many armour units as I could, but the Tiger turret is just too slow. I sqeezed the Tiger between some buildings and set an ambush for the middle of the road leading to the flag in the town. For some inexplicable reason (again?!) something shot at my Tiger, immobilizing it. I don't know how that could happen, because there is barely enough room between the buildings for the Tiger to squeeze through, and we are talking multi-level buildings on both sides. I stayed further back from the road, to make sure the AI wouldn't cut across the building corners like it usually does, but somehow it got me anyway. Anyway, I lost Wittman, but I ended up with a Total Axis Victory. I think I will try this scenario again, but with a Panther this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted November 14, 2000 Share Posted November 14, 2000 It is a great operation. I played as the Germans and ended up with a total victory and 132 allied vehicles destroyed. To tell you the truth, I don't recall there being that many, but the landscape was littered with wrecks. My favorite was one of the Mk IV's in the last reinforcement group. He survived with 3 firefly kills and several other kills. A real gunslinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted November 15, 2000 Share Posted November 15, 2000 That has to be a different one from the one I did. In mine, there is only one Tiger, start to finish, Wittmann only. It is the one titled, Villers-Bocage - TIGER! If there is more than one German vehicle, then it is someone else's scenario. ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted November 15, 2000 Share Posted November 15, 2000 Woa. Is that right Bill? I have played Villers-Bocage - Tiger! and in it, it has 1 Wittman Tiger for the first 5-8 turns then the scenario gives you 3 more Tigers, a few infantrymen with a panzershreck, and a Panzer xxx tank as reinforcments. Hmmm...I did download a bunch of maps but I only installed one of them and I am sure it was not Villers-Bocage. Hmmm also, I did'nt know there was a 3rd party Villers-Bocage scenario available. Can you give a link? Hehe. Anyway...I had a hard time in that scenario as well, as first I thought it would easy, just brewin up all sorts of vehicles at first, then all of the sudden I am completely surrounded. I like the scenario, but I had wished that it was a bit more historical in the amount of allied armored units. I did'nt think there were supposed to be that many allied tanks.I also feel the map is exagerated in the town size and I thought there where more hills and bocage. Just comparing it to what I have read on Actung Panzer.com Panzer ... Just a new knickname or screen name I like to use I am trying to use a more WWII centric name and I am hoping to use a cool german one not sure though which I will use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted November 15, 2000 Share Posted November 15, 2000 Man, am I getting old and senile or what! Its been some months since I played my own scenario and honestly only remembered Wittmann. At that time, I was so focused on keeping him alive and racking up points that I gave little attention to the reinforcements. Now I am headed over to play it again. Sorry, Actually, you are right about the tanks. What I did was sort of compress it all into one big battle, including later reinforcements. So no, it is not "historical" in the literal sense, but a playable recreation of most of what happened that entire day. Bil Hardenberger does have one that has more of the "historical" flavor you want. I have not seen it posted anywhere, but I know he visits here. You might want to post a request that he send it to you. Or it may be posted on some support site somewhere. The operation by Los is also very good and puts the arrival of units for both side in a better chonological order. Wild Bill ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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