Advance to Contact - Techniques?

[BloodyBucket]

How do others advance infantry into an unknown situation? I know that keeping the waypoints short can help, but does anyone use recon by fire, sacrificial units or perhaps sneak all the time?

Having been on the receiving end of a nasty ambush, I am looking for some corporate wisdom from the board!

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"Roll on"

[Kitty]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BloodyBucket:

How do others advance infantry into an unknown situation? I know that keeping the waypoints short can help, but does anyone use recon by fire, sacrificial units or perhaps sneak all the time?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I don't know anything, I can't say these ways are "correct" but I've done the following and/or had them done to me:

1) send sharpshooters in front of the main body

2) send a split squad in front of the main body

3) if you strongly suspect the area in question contains enemy units, use 2 of the three squads in a platoon for suppressing fire and have the third advance on it.

4) Use artillery on the area and advance as closely behind the barrage as possible.

As for sneaking, I find myself using it more and more as I play more games. Again, don't know if I'm right to do it but it seems to work ok for me. I'm sure that someone will read this though and then tell you what you really should be doing. =)

Kitty

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ICQ 8273286

http://www.fluffkitty.com

[Samhain]

Check out the tactics/articles sections at these sites:

http://www.gamesofwar.de/ http://combathq.thegamers.net/ http://www.combat-mission.com/ http://mapage.cybercable.fr/deanco/

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Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR

[The_Capt]

First thing is to take a good look at the ground from the enemies point of view. Once you can take a stab at where he will be putting his MGs, squads etc based on dominating ground, enfilade and your objectives, you can develop a "RECCE" plan.

The Recce (or reconaisance) plan gives locations which need to be "checked out". How you check them out is a judgement call. Spec fire, a platoon (I wouldn't use anything less except in a SMALL scenario) or recce vehicle can all be used in conjunction with "overwatch" and smoke.

The key is determining what will conduct the recce and which route it will take. A covered approach as close to the Area of Interest (or AOI) is best but sometimes the enemy will tie in his flanks making that difficult. Don't be afraid to use smoke and indirect fire in high suspect ground as it will shake up the troops laying the ambush and may cause them to trigger early or if you are really lucky, run away.

Hope this helps.

[Matt the Paladin]

It's also a good idea to look for high ground. You can see for pretty far from the top of a hill. You should probably use a sharpshooter or a split squad for this, because you might end up losing it if it is seen. Also, try to send an advance group to root out any ambushes the enemy has planned.

If all this is just too complicated for you, just send your troops to nearby VL's and let the enemy come to you.

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"I'd rateher die than be whipped."

J.E.B. Stuart

[Guest wwb_99]

One technique which I like is mech recon. For this one needs:

1-2 ACs/ HTs for scouting

2 HTs for transport

1 HQ

1 HMG

2 Mortars (or spotter)

Find enemy with ACs, suppress with MGs & mortars, and then crush with following main body.

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Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say,

Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salatamus.

[BloodyBucket]

All interesting and valid suggestions. Thanks for the response.

I have been using MMG's/HMG's to provide a base of fire for my infantry, advancing in short bounds, generally with the MOVE command.

It occurs to me that the overwatching MG can only engage one target at a time when the ambush is sprung, unless there is a trick to using the NEXT TARGET command that I am not grasping.

Works fine against the AI, but not so well against real people!

[Guest wwb_99]

Usually if you do not assign an MG a target, they seem to spread their fire.

WWB

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Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say,

Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salatamus.

[Chupacabra]

I look at the map, figure out where the other fellow's likely to be, and then plaster those areas with as much firepower as I can bring to bear.

Sometimes I guess wrong, but I've been right more often.

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Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[Joeri]

I like to share a trick I use for moving my recon units (mostly halfsquads) into unknown territory.

I usually use the run command but I mix this with very small distances of sneak. That way when your squad comes under fire it only runs to the next sneak order and then stops and returns fire. Typically such a sneak order will be given when the squad enters a wood. The result is that your men cross the open quickly. If they come under fire they continue to the wood from where they return fire. If they do not come under fire they start running again after a very small section of sneaking. This works very good in some cases.

I also use this when I'm travelling through wood. Run sneak run sneak .... Only I tend to make the run distances much shorter then in the open.

By the way with a short distance of sneak I mean as short as I reasonably can put the two waypoints together (something like 1m in CM scale).

Hope anyone likes this idea.

Joeri

[This message has been edited by Joeri (edited 11-29-2000).]

[Guest Pillar]

Joeri,

That's a good way to communicate scout behaviour to the game interface, but I think using "Move" would work better for you (instead of sneak). Try it out.

[Popper]

My .02 on this is that there are two basic ways I tend to recon:

1) scouting

2) force recon

When scouting, one should not get too attached to the scouting units. Make sure to use your cover, but don't be surprised when your scouts evaporate. The intel that you are collecting is the real issue.

This might be a little gamey, but I find that half squads and utility cars (eg M20 or Humber) are the most economical for this kind of work. Sharpshooters are 18 points each and tend to evaporate too quickly amid enemy fire.

Force recon relies mainly on massed fast movers. M3A1's are ideal for this due to their two machineguns. 4 of these within 150 meters of a PS team can make them disintegrate before they have a chance to fire off a second round.

The key here is to maintain a distance of between 60 and 200 meters of areas you suspect contain enemy units. This ensures that 1) PF's and grenades can't hit you, 2) your MG's are at optimal killing range, 3) you stand a great chance of spotting even hidden troops, and 4) you have room to react if the enemy decides to human wave you.

You will rarely have to manually target, but pick the obvious threats first (eg: guns, antitank teams, etc.).

Obviously, tanks in ambush positions can ruin your whole day, but hopefully, your own AT assets shouldn't be too far behind.

Hope this helps.

[BloodyBucket]

As usual, the board has many fine ideas

Makes me wonder how TCP/IP play with the time limit will affect the finer points of recon that have been perfected when the clock is not ticking.

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"Roll on"

[Hiram Sedai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar:

Joeri,

That's a good way to communicate scout behaviour to the game interface, but I think using "Move" would work better for you (instead of sneak). Try it out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Question on the method of scouting - Why move?? I'm guessing that "sneak" would have the team start firing when encountering the enemy. I haven't used move in a while and wasn't sure how to effectively use it.

Thoughts??

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[coralsaw]

From my experience:

- Sneak will have a squad return fire after being fired at. If the squad runs in an ambush while in the open, it's as good as gone. I use sneak in forests, scattered trees etc.

- Move offers the best spotting ability.

- Run offers the shortest exposure in the open, but suboptimal spotting.

I scout using move, as it seems the best compromise between spotting ability, speed and fatigue.

[This message has been edited by coralsaw (edited 12-04-2000).]

[Guest Pillar]

It's my understanding that with "Move" your men are more likely to stop and return fire than with "Sneak".

[Hiram Sedai]

I guess its time for me to re-read my manual. I use sneak for almost everthing. I truly thought that a squad was more likely to return fire when sneaking as opposed to moving.

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[JoePrivate]

AFAIK you are right Hiram, unless something has changed in 1.1 that I haven't seen yet. Squads with 'Move' will return fire but they will still try to reach their destination while with 'Sneak' they will generally move to contact then stop to return fire.

[russellmz]

hey bloodybucket, did u get your name from that pennsylvania unit in the hurtegen forest?

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russellmz,

Self-proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ.

"They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush

"They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show

[This message has been edited by russellmz (edited 12-11-2000).]

[Joeri]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

It's my understanding that with "Move" your men are more likely to stop and return fire than with "Sneak".

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was my understanding that with sneak your units stop and return fire. While with move they continue moving. Since the intermediate sneak order I give is only very short, it is necessary for the unit to stop. If they do not stop they will again start running.

Sometimes I also include portions of 'move' in the sequence (mostly when traveling through woods). In that case I use move/sneak instead of run/sneak. Again with very small portions of sneak. Depending on the circumstances I also use the sneak for larger distances when expecting contact.

I find this method very useful to plan ahead a sequence of orders for a number of turns for my scouting units (of course they can be chanced in between turns if things happen).

Joeri

[Guest Pillar]

Joeri,

Check out some recent discussion on the main board for more on this. I believe you are correct that the sneak command has the squad stop and return fire, but only IF fired upon. The move command will let them initiate fire, but they won't stop.

So you can't have both unfortunately.

[BloodyBucket]

Yes, the 28th division is my namesake here, as my father was a BAR man in the 110th Regt. of that outfit.

BTW, I have been using SNEAK quite a bit more recently with good results. Patience seems to pay off!

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"Roll on"

[Guest grunto]

it helps if you're lobbing a bunch of high explosive into the suspected enemy positions as you advance.

sometimes a board will have good los and you can set up a fire base of 4 or 5 armored vehicles with 75mm or larger guns. then just shell the best looking building positions in the town you're attacking as your infantry make their way forward.

this only works on wide open boards with no enemy AT assets to pester your fire base.

one time though my m8 hmcs shattered several defensive points in a town as the infantry drove up in jeeps.

the m8s moved before the 150mm rockets could hit... then an m8 was taken out and two others immobilized, but for the loss of just one vehicle that group of 5 m8s had - from their original firebase - shattered about 2 or 3 key buildings on turn 1.

ymmv (your mileage may vary)

Andy

[Grobdeutschland]

Use lots of ways pts, they can be adjusted & canceled.

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"Far better it is

To dare mighty things...

Then to take rank with

Those poor, timid spirits

Who know neither

Victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt 1899

[Monte99]

I don't think it's wise to write off ANY force, even split squads, as a cost of finding out where the enemy is. In this game you already know roughly where he is: in the direction of the victory flags. You also have an absolutely reliable map and a pretty good idea of his firepower. This is before you ever make your first move.

Casualties are inevitable, but for me it's important to minimize them. I don't like giving the enemy a free shot at anything. The best way to advance is to make sure every element has a modicum of cover and/or covering fire. Sneaking around a lot before the main engagement is, for me, generally a waste of time and assets.

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"Arms are my ornaments, warfare my repose." - Don Quixote

[This message has been edited by Monte99 (edited 12-26-2000).]