shrek Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 You can tell whether the Grant is firing its 37mm or 75mm guns by the sound and by watching the ammo count. But when the 75mm gun fires, the recoil and smoke animation affect the 37mm gun, not the 75. Anyone else notice this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Does anybody else besides me notice how much attention the Lee/Grant is receiving? (Actuall the Lee only at this point. Aside from the BFC staff and the beta testers, and possibly a handful of previewers, none of us have seen a Grant in action at this point.) Of course, part of this is due to the fact that they are in the only scenarios we have available at the present time. And no doubt much of it is due to their "curiosity" factor. They are odd. And they were only in the war for a short time, Burma excepted. I predict that once we have the full version of the game available, only a tiny fraction of scenarios built and posted by players will contain Lee/Grants. So, although it is indeed disappointing that the modeling of the Lee/Grant in its present iteration is flawed, I wonder if we are not obsessing about it a little more than it really merits. I think we should just press on with whatever does work properly and hope that in CMx2 multi-turreted tanks will perform more closely to the heart's desire. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrek Posted November 25, 2003 Author Share Posted November 25, 2003 Hmm, I'll take that as a "no." But why wait for CMx2? Why not just fix it with a patch? Curiously, the modelling of the 75mm guns seems to be correct in the CMAK advertisement... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by shrek: Hmm, I'll take that as a "no."And you'd be right. But why wait for CMx2? Why not just fix it with a patch?Well, going by the statements emanating from BFC and reading a bit between the lines, it would require some rather substantial rewriting of the code and they've made the decision to invest that effort into doing a ground up rewrite of the entire engine instead. Now we can second guess them on that decision until the cows come home, but it looks like that's what's going to happen. Frankly, as I tried to indicate in my first post, it really isn't something I am inclined to get too worked up over. And somehow, when push comes to shove, I expect that more players would prefer an early advent of CMx2 than not. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Look again, the 75mm and 37mm fire at the same time. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta1 Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Looks to me that to model the two guns they actually have effectively abstracted the tank to one gun with two different sets of ammo, one 37 and one 75mm. The TacAI just chooses the best round to fire as before. I could be wrong as I'be only been playing the demo 2 days but the 2 guns always seem to track together and always engage the same target. I guess its just a limitation of the engine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterX Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 I've seen the 75 facing forward, hull down, and the 37 swiveling to take on infantry off to the left. Also, when HD, the Lee seems to fire the 37 more frequently. Note: this is not a scientific experiment, but based on obsevrced ammo expenditure over several turns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta1 Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 There you go then. I'll have to play some more and try and get my grants to do that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 I just did a test and you'll be happy to read I got both guns firing independantly, including the recoil, smoke and flash graphics! So on the Lee both the hull 75 and turret 37 work, even firing on different targets at the same time (at least that's how my quick test looked). The point of confusion might have had to do with the apparent preference for the 37mm gun when engaging armor, so don't get to see the 75 in action much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 If both guns are firing at the same target, they fire at the same moment in time. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 There's actually another whole thread where I thought the questions around multi turrent were pretty much sorted out. The conclusion was that multi-turret is implemented like this: MT tanks are the same as any other tank in all ways but this: - They have an extra choice of higher guage ammo over a limited forward facing arc. - They have some graphics to indicate which ammo was chosen (IE if 75mm ammo was chosen, then the 75mm gun appears to fire). There is no such thing as "targetting two separate targets". While the "gun facing" parameter is in the arc accessible by the 75, the graphics show the 35 and 75 swinging together, and 75mm micht be chosen. While the "gun facing parameter" is outside the 75 arc, the 75 graphic swings to the front, and the 35 is shown pointing in the facing direction, and only 35 ammo will be chosen. There is only one "gun facing" that the tank understands. All the above statements are based on observation only, but so far no-one has refuted them and lots have backed it up. The only new question that this thread has raised in my mind is this: "can the tank fire _both_ guns at a single target simultaneiously?" My guess is "no"... I'd be interested to hear of counter examples... GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haohmaru Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Does anybody else besides me notice how much attention the Lee/Grant is receiving? (Actuall the Lee only at this point. Aside from the BFC staff and the beta testers, and possibly a handful of previewers, none of us have seen a Grant in action at this point.) Of course, part of this is due to the fact that they are in the only scenarios we have available at the present time. And no doubt much of it is due to their "curiosity" factor. They are odd. And they were only in the war for a short time, Burma excepted. I predict that once we have the full version of the game available, only a tiny fraction of scenarios built and posted by players will contain Lee/Grants. So, although it is indeed disappointing that the modeling of the Lee/Grant in its present iteration is flawed, I wonder if we are not obsessing about it a little more than it really merits. I think we should just press on with whatever does work properly and hope that in CMx2 multi-turreted tanks will perform more closely to the heart's desire. Michael One reason it is getting so much attention is because BFC has been billing this as one of CMAK's major new features. If they are going to use it as a selling point for the game, then it should get some scrutiny, and it should work properly. The M3 even features prominently on the splash screen, so how can we not think about it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Okay, that's a point. But I still think that now that it has been scrutinized, it's time to move on to other topics. Maybe BFC should simply stop hyping it and redirect their corporate thrust along a more worthwhile vector. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Okay, that's a point. But I still think that now that it has been scrutinized, it's time to move on to other topics. Maybe BFC should simply stop hyping it and redirect their corporate thrust along a more worthwhile vector. Michael You have hit the nail on the head here. (takes breath before mentioning this...) There was (gasp, don't shoot me) some disappointment expressed about how CMAK wasn't such a leap forward. I shared it, when I fired up CMAK and saw what it was. Then I took stock of what KwazyDog said: CMAK is basically BFC providing us another theatre. That's it. A new theatre, and one with the allies... something everyone has been wanting. Thus it is some more units, terrains, and a few ongoing tweaks to the engine. Sure, they needed to tweak it to make Multi Turret tanks viable, but that's all they've done. If this was how CMAK was sold, it wouldn't have risked any disappointment. And, to tell the truth, I don't think BFC ever really hyped CMAK more than saying "It's a new theatre". Most of the hype came from forum members. It's us who've been begging for bones, and hyping each one, and longing and longing for the new release. Little wonder, then, that there's a slight "Oh, is that all"... especially since CMBB was such a "Yes, like Wow". It's nice having the new theatre, how multi-turrets work seems to be sussed out, so let's get on with playing... (and posting AARs that help me figure out how to play better... when is the first Michael vs Jason in the Desert???) GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 As to 37mm and 75mm guns targeting together, it makes sense when confronted with the usual one-target-at-a-time in the forward arc. Otherwise people would be complaining 'Why isn't my 37mm gun tracking targets too!" But I haven't observed it inhibiting the turret from swinging to engage other priority targets outside of the 75mm gun's field of fire as multiple threats pop up. Observation based on fairly limited testing, admittedly. And the "over-hype" issue. That should probably read "over-anticipation". It seems like some folks wouldn't be satisfied with anything less than the Second Coming. BFC always billed CMAK as the CM engine in the Med. theater, with a few improvements but less ambitious than the Russian Front (hence the cheaper pricetag). By that criteria they've surpassed themselves with this game! I do believe that no matter how many bells and whistles are added to the eventual new game engine the 'over-anticipation' crowd will inevitably be disappointed. "What? No working wristwatches for the troops? No smell-o-vision for the virtual chow line? This game sucks!" [ November 26, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haohmaru Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 In any case, I will certainly be buying CMAK, the main reason being able to play as the aussies. And you have to admit, the new Sherman models look absolutely beautiful, when I compare them with the CMBO ones it's like chalk and cheese. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by Haohmaru: In any case, I will certainly be buying CMAK, the main reason being able to play as the aussies. And you have to admit, the new Sherman models look absolutely beautiful, when I compare them with the CMBO ones it's like chalk and cheese. Yeah - right about the models. The Stuey is pretty good too. As to the Aussies... I have to admit a certain amount of nervousness about the accents we will encounter. Does anyone have inside information about whether there were Aussie actors? GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 And they were only in the war for a short time, Burma excepted. I predict that once we have the full version of the game available, only a tiny fraction of scenarios built and posted by players will contain Lee/Grants. Michael! Two scenarios using Lees have been designed for the Small Battles series, one based on an action in Kabaw Valley and the other at Nunshiglin Ridge. Yes your worst fears realized 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haohmaru Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 About the aussie accents, I hope they will be good. After all, the non English accents from CMBB seemed to be pretty authentic and convincing (although I've got no idea what they're saying!) so if they can't get an English language accent right, that'll be disappointing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by Hans: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> And they were only in the war for a short time, Burma excepted. I predict that once we have the full version of the game available, only a tiny fraction of scenarios built and posted by players will contain Lee/Grants. Michael! Two scenarios using Lees have been designed for the Small Battles series, one based on an action in Kabaw Valley and the other at Nunshiglin Ridge. Yes your worst fears realized </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 I used suitably altered Italians...however when they talk it loses effect...Sergio Nishikawa and Gino Shimabukuro don't sound too Japanese. Also did a Thai vs French in 1940 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Originally posted by Hans: I used suitably altered Italians...Hmm, this brings visions to mind of...but no, I won't go there. I'm catching enough flak already from my mandolins and accordions gag. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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